Money Mart?

[C Dick]

The worst thing about this thread is jbar's graphic, it disturbs me.

I assume that the way it would work is that CRA decides to audit jbar, by chance, because someone ratted on him, or whatever. So then as part of that audit they say to the banks, and everyone like Money Mart who are part of the cheque clearing system, send us what you have on SIN #<jbar's SIN>. So then Money Mart send the cheque information, and they have you. I assume that this kind of thing is done automatically, electronically, on a continual basis. If it wasn't, how would they ever catch anyone.

 

[Serpent]

I assume that this kind of thing is done automatically, electronically, on a continual basis. If it wasn't, how would they ever catch anyone.

Yep.

I am not very knowledgeable of Canadian practices but in the US, banks and financial institutions have BSA compliance officers because non-compliance is a serious offence. Infact institutions will be over-cautious and file reports to FINCEN even if an 80 yr. grand mother makes a $50,000 deposit into her account.

And then there is AML software that banks have which tracks the usage patterns and account trends and generates information for reporting to the Feds.

Question: is structuring illegal in Canada?

 

[fuji]

Based on your quote above, what you are telling me is that when a company/person who issues cheques for whoever is audited, then every single payee of that company/person is in turn audited?

They certainly don't audit everyone. Just a few at random.

The way the audit business works they rarely recover enough tax from someone they audit to justify the cost of the auditing. However, if they can catch enough to keep the other 95% honest, it pays off.

If they never followed a few chains, follow-on audits to randomly see if a few cheque cashers declared, just to check, lots more people would figure that they'll never get caught doing what you want to do, and enough people would do it that they'd lose big money.

Unless I was a career criminal who launders large sums of money on a regular basis, I don't see how the CRA would be interested in a nobody like me.

Odds are they'll never audit you. But it's a severe enough penalty that if you're the random unlucky guy who gets caught, you'll really regret it. They like to make examples out of people who thought they'd never get caught.

Like I said, they'll never make enough auditing one random schmo to pay for the audit, but if they make that guy hurt enough, it scares 99 other schmoes into being honest, it does pay off.

 

[Moraff]

While that theory is sound in principle, it is practical? Does it happen? They might as well be auditing everybody in Canada at the same time.

Based on your quote above, what you are telling me is that when a company/person who issues cheques for whoever is audited, then every single payee of that company/person is in turn audited?

Also, I can't see CRA starting from the other way. For example, I can't see them saying "OK, we are going to make a list of everybody that writes cheques to Terb member jbar (or that jbar knows), and then we're going to audit every single one of those people/companies so that we can catch jbar in the act.". They don't have a clue who I know. Let's say I have an account at RBC which is frozen (for whatever reason), and I'm need to go to Money Mart and cash a $2,000 inheritance cheque (from my maternal grandmother, who therefore has a different last name). How does CRA know who my maternal grandmother was?

Unless I was a career criminal who launders large sums of money on a regular basis, I don't see how the CRA would be interested in a nobody like me. All-in-all I'm only talk about a theorical one-time shot of about $2,000-$3,000 while a 'normal' bank account is tied up in a legal dispute.


Cheers

Yes, you most likely would get away with it, just like you can get away with running a red light most of the time without any penalty. Unfortunately if you get caught the penalty tends to be nasty. Given the way my luck with that sort of thing usually runs, I tend not to do things that can cost me lots if I get caught.

 

[fuji]

Let's define painful: A fine of up to 200% of the taxes you owed (though it's usually a 100% fine), PLUS penalties of 1% per month on the balance owing, PLUS interest compounding on all of that at 9-10%, PLUS, on top of all that, if your evasion was egregious enough, they'll put you in jail.

So, assuming you dodge the jail time, if you evade $10k and get caught you might have to pay 30k in penalties, fines, and interest ON TOP of the $10k.

They like to put some of the examples they've made of people up on their website:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/convictions/menu-e.html

Hey, is one of these you?

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/convictions/on/on070424-e.html

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/convictions/on/on070214-e.html

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/convictions/on/on070117-e.html

Guess not... you'll be up there next year I'll be watching for you buddy. That last guy got 14 months, with time off for good behavior and such he's probably getting out around Sept or October. Why don't you look him up and tell him that the CRA never catches anyone?

 

[jbar]

Let's define painful: A fine of up to 200% of the taxes you owed (though it's usually a 100% fine), PLUS penalties of 1% per month on the balance owing, PLUS interest compounding on all of that at 9-10%, PLUS, on top of all that, if your evasion was egregious enough, they'll put you in jail.

So, assuming you dodge the jail time, if you evade $10k and get caught you might have to pay 30k in penalties, fines, and interest ON TOP of the $10k.

They like to put some of the examples they've made of people up on their website:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/convictions/menu-e.html

Hey, is one of these you?

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/convictions/on/on070424-e.html

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/convictions/on/on070214-e.html

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/convictions/on/on070117-e.html

Guess not... you'll be up there next year I'll be watching for you buddy. That last guy got 14 months, with time off for good behavior and such he's probably getting out around Sept or October. Why don't you look him up and tell him that the CRA never catches anyone?

Ha-ha.....no, I'm not on their list.

By the way, I know what the definition of pain is; yours doesn't come close to the pain I've faced for the past year-and-a-half, and what I could potentially face in 2008. No disrespect to you; I've read enough of your posts to know that you know your business. And I'm not worried about the inside of a prision (for reasons I can't explain here); being homeless is more problematic.

And this whole thing is not about tax evasion either. It's about a potential inheritence in the short term, a serious run of unemployment (thanks to a company that punished my loyality), elitist potential-employers within the financial district (I don't look like an accountant), mounting credit-card debts, student loans, and a family that doesn't give a shit (except for 1 or 2 people) about what happens to me. Thank God I have the Brass-Rail girls to comfort me.

Ah, the life of a successful ex-Corporate Banking Manager and CMA student (I also got up to level 3 in the CGA program). I should have grabbed those tens-of-millions of corporate dollars when I had the chance, and then flee overseas. I could've have opened my own strip club and fly you guys in for free.

Sorry about my rant, I needed to vent.


Cheers

 

[Daddio]

I used MM when my accounts were frozen due to legal, debt, and tax problems combined. They cashed my cheques with little hassle. But their service is slow. If there are three people in line prepare to wait 20 minutes.

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

But if their "normal" bank account is frozen for whatever reason (e.g. pending legal dispute), Money Mart will have no clue about it if they ask for normal ID (e.g. driver's license, SIN, birth certificate) in order to set-up a new account.

However, if they ask for a bank account number (which is frozen), and they go through the process verifying it with the actual bank, that might present a problem. I want to know if Money Mart "talks" to these banks.

Lastly, how is Revenue Canada linked with places like Money Mart? Does Money Mart issue government documentation or report the account to a credit bureau (e.g. Equifax)? As far as I know there ARE facilities in place that handle non-bankables such as Card One Plus (I was interviewed by them for a job once) that completely bypass all conventional banking policies/legislation. Since places like Money Mart are not crown corporations, their business does not present any real risk to the government. Therefore I assume the govenment monitors this type of business the way that they monitor a Mac's Milk. But once again, I'm looking to see if they linked to the banks in any way shape or form.


Cheers

Absolutely untrue. Rev Canada monitors MM. Trust me.

 

[fuji]

If your accounts at one bank are frozen even another major bank probably has no idea about it. I had a corporate dispute with CRA once over GST, and CRA actually sent out notices to my business' bank ordering a freeze of BOTH the corporate AND my personal accounts. My actual personal accounts, which were at another bank, were never affected.

So, if your accounts are frozen, yeah, you could use MoneyMart. You could probably also use another major bank.

In that case you are not really _hiding_ the money from CRA. Just getting it into your pocket. You'd still declare it and pay the taxes. But yeah, if you are in a major dispute and your accounts are frozen, it's nice to have some liquid cash in your pocket.

 

[jbar]

Thanks for your feedback everyone, the picture is much clearer now.


Cheers