Michael Jackson - Leaving Neverland on HBO

[james t kirk]

Caught the HBO documentary called "Leaving Neverland" on HBO last night about Michael Jackson sexually abusing young boys as told by 2 of his victims.

I must say both men (They are now 36 and 41) were very convincing. It's not an easy watch. They both relate stories of how Jackson brought them into his inner world and wooed them with gifts and luxury and then raped them as young boys.

Obviously there have been allegations made against Jackson in the past. There was a lawsuit brought forward by the family of one child in which Jackson paid out 23 million in money to make it go away and then a criminal prosecution in 2005 or so in which Jackson was acquitted of all charges. ( And back then, one of the two men in this documentary testified in Jackson's defence stating that nothing sexual had occurred between him and Jackson when he was a boy.). But this is the first time I've been exposed to the details in such a stark fashion and they were disgusting. In the one boy's case, the abuse started when he was 7 years old. What was even more revolting was how Jackson would always find new boys and would lose interest in the other boys he had already abused. They would show photos of Jackson out and about with one young boy or another and it would turn your stomach. Always boys. Always dressed like Jackson.

People often ask, "Where were the parents" and interestingly enough, this documentary features both mothers of both victims and once you hear them, you'll understand. Both mothers were self absorbed dummies who were easily seduced by Jackson's celebrity and wealth and it blinded them to the reality of what was going on.

It is interesting to me that there are still legions of his fans who still to this day will defend him to the end. The one keystone in all of this is McCauley Chalkin who has steadfastly maintained that nothing sexual ever transpired between him and Jackson. God only knows what the truth is.

I was never a fan of Michael Jackson or his music. He was just a pop music star with no substance to me. Never listened to his music, or owned any record he ever sold. I still remember Axl Rose once saying on accepting an award named in Jackson's honour, "oh, and this award has nothing to do with Michael Jackson". Good on you Axl, good on you.

 

[Afro-Dutch]

If you've watched Razorfist's(of youtube fame) deconstruction of the Jackson trial then this doc is not convincing at all. In fact it's derivative of other claims that were discredited and thrown out in court.

 

[james t kirk]

Dunno, but both men are VERY convincing in Leaving Neverland.

 

[malata]

was also rumoured, that he never had females in his love shack. Including his wife

 

[Darts]

These stories keep popping up. Of course I wasn't in the room so I don't know where the truth lies. However, I do find it odd that a full grown adult has so many close kiddie "friends".

BTW: He paid $millions for Debbie Rowe to bear his children. After he died Debbie came back for second dips.

 

[sweetiepieexo]

If you knew the abuse Michael endured from his own father you would understand why he was always surrounded by "kiddies".

I myself would never waste a second of my time watching this. My mom was a fan of MJ's and to this day still is . I don't believe he abused these children because first they say nothing sexual transpired and then now that hes dead ( RIP KING OF POP) they are just looking to tarnish his reputation and he is not here to defend himself. Not only that but no one is thinking of his kids - his daughter paris Jackson has already been to rehab several times & the family has had several suicide scares from her. If he abused other children - why wouldn't he do it with his own ?

I think this film is just a way to capitalize off of him and make a profit . Also the family has been trying to sell Neverland ranch and have been unsuccessful because of this . They had to slash the price by 70 MILLION. Which is nuts if you ask me.

The family has already said they are suing HBO but HBO does not care and released the film anyways.

I am a MJ fan and I still to this day remember the day he died. I even watched the ceremony on tv & his daughter Paris jacksons speech killed me ; ive never cried so much in my life. I guess those who don't know anything about him would believe this is true . However his die hard fans like the op said will to the end defend him. So I guess I'm one of those LOL .

To each their own.

 

[Insidious Von]

Michael Jackson never wrote social commentary songs like Stevie Wonder or Marvin Gaye. Besides that MJ was emotionally abused throughout his childhood, he never had one. His father wanted to get his family out of Gary Indiana regardless of cost, MJ was his meal ticket. I can't fault him for that, Gary is a God forsaken place. If he did not drive his family to succeed a few of his children would have been murdered before they reached 20.

I have no interest in watching it.

 

[Insidious Von]

Gary Indiana, the rectum of Chicago. It's where South Bend (Notre Dame) dumps it's poor.

 

[Smallcock]

Just the latest attempt to exploit Jackson's fame (and weird infamy) for money.

As for Axl, he's never said anything good or bad about MJ other than stating in 1988 that Man In The Mirror was one one of his favorite songs. He's not one to mince words or hold his tongue. The comment you referred to was aimed at Nirvana in 1992 when GnR were accepting the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award on MTV. Nirvana also won an award but had an MJ impersonator accept it on their behalf and this was when Nirvana had knocked an MJ's song off the #1 spot on the billboard chart to #2 with Smells like teen spirit. This was also the day Axl and Kurt got into it with Courtney Love taunting Axl, and him threatening to kick Kurt's ass

 

[james t kirk]

Just the latest attempt to exploit Jackson's fame (and weird infamy) for money.

As for Axl, he's never said anything good or bad about MJ other than stating in 1988 that Man In The Mirror was one one of his favorite songs. He's not one to mince words or hold his tongue. The comment you referred to was aimed at Nirvana in 1992 when GnR were accepting the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award on MTV. Nirvana also won an award but had an MJ impersonator accept it on their behalf and this was when Nirvana had knocked an MJ's song off the #1 spot on the billboard chart to #2 with Smells like teen spirit. This was also the day Axl and Kurt got into it with Courtney Love taunting Axl, and him threatening to kick Kurt's ass

Actually the reason Axl and Slash had their falling out was because Slash had agreed to play with Michael Jackson. Axl was of the opinion that slash should have told Jackson that Jackson was a child molester and refused to play with him. (Because Axl was a victim of child sexual abuse himself.) When Slash refused and went ahead and played with Jackson, it led to the break up of Guns n Roses.

 

[jcpro]

In the good old days the studios and the record companies kept their talent under wraps. Their official lives were a fiction and their off the cuff remarks scripted and rehearsed. They seemed bigger, better and smarter. These days... oy vey! Guilty or not, MJ was a fucking weirdo and he paraded it to the world.

 

[HAMSTER INSPECTOR]

I suspect that Michael Jackson is neither man nor beast. He is a manufactured product of his father. To keep the money making machine going, his father put a wire around Wacko Jacjo's gonads and gave it a half turn a day until he was soprano'ed.

 

[james t kirk]

Good article in Vanity Fair.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations

Here's some interesting take aways.


1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.


2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”

3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.

6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.

7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.


8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.

9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.

10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.

 

[Smallcock]

Actually the reason Axl and Slash had their falling out was because Slash had agreed to play with Michael Jackson. Axl was of the opinion that slash should have told Jackson that Jackson was a child molester and refused to play with him. (Because Axl was a victim of child sexual abuse himself.) When Slash refused and went ahead and played with Jackson, it led to the break up of Guns n Roses.

That was not the reason for their falling out. http://loudwire.com/slash-dont-think-theres-any-truth-rift-with-axl-rose-over-michael-jackson/

 

[Smallcock]

Good article in Vanity Fair.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations

Maureen's '10 facts' are a mix of fact and fiction. For example:

https://www.showbiz411.com/2019/03/...d-jimmy-safechuck-to-drag-others-into-the-mix

https://themichaeljacksonallegation...s-taken-of-the-stars-genitalia-by-the-police/

I don't know whether MJ ever molested kids, but none of the people involved and none of those trying to profit off it, have been credible. At the end of the day, in spite of all accusations, years of investigations and evidence gathering, he was not found guilty in the court of law.

 

[james t kirk]

That was not the reason for their falling out. http://loudwire.com/slash-dont-think-theres-any-truth-rift-with-axl-rose-over-michael-jackson/

Key word in there is "think".

I can use google to find 40 hits that backup my statement that Rose fell out with Slash over Jackson.

There is definitely something happening there. I read a couple of interviews over the years with Axl Rose (Rolling Stone being one of them) and he was very much outspoken against child molesters and certainly wasn not an apologist for Jackson.

I don't know whether MJ ever molested kids, but none of the people involved and none of those trying to profit off it, have been credible. At the end of the day, in spite of all accusations, years of investigations and evidence gathering, he was not found guilty in the court of law.

You haven't even watched "Leaving Neverland". So how would you even have a sense whether or not the 2 men featured in it were credible?

I have watched the first part of the two part documentary and I can assure you that both men come across as credible. Very credible.

 

[james t kirk]

Chris Rock did this routine 15 years ago, he nails it.

People are were / are in awe of Jackson because of his celebrity and they figure it can't be true. But Jackson was simply a garden variety pedophile who could sing and dance.

 

[Jicama]

At the end of the day, in spite of all accusations, years of investigations and evidence gathering, he was not found guilty in the court of law.

You could say exactly the same about Weinstein & R. Kelly - these kinds of allegations are not easy to prove in a court of law, especially not against multi-millionaires

 

[lomotil]

The Roman Polanski's, Donald Trump's and Michael Jackson's of this world are given a generous pass by their fans while other perpetrators with less egregious actions are not so lucky.

 

[Smallcock]

Chris Rock did this routine 15 years ago, he nails it.

People are were / are in awe of Jackson because of his celebrity and they figure it can't be true. But Jackson was simply a garden variety pedophile who could sing and dance.

I don't doubt the very real possibility that Jackson was a pedophile. He was a very strange man and I wouldn't leave my kids alone with him.

But the article cited was penned by a woman whose 'facts' are very loose and she's made similar lists before e.g. https://medium.com/@levine2001/the-...able-facts-about-the-woody-allen-5f26791c15a0

These accusers had their day in court, and multiple courts of law found MJ not guilty. Courting controversy to line HBO's pockets is expected but I really have no interest in a matter that's been settled by those that had access to all the evidence.