Man with knife on streetcar at Dundas and Grace, shot by police

[Shrugged]

Yikes, I was pretty close by at the time and heard the gunshots.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/07/27/man_dead_after_police_shooting_on_dundas_streetcar.html

 

[nottyboi]

Seems very over the top for someone with a knife IMHO. The guy was in a confined area, a bunch of cops outside... lots of other options like pepper spray or tazer..and they pump a bunch of rounds into the guy. Seriously WTF.. these guys seem too anxious to kill someone.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Seems very over the top for someone with a knife IMHO. The guy was in a confined area, a bunch of cops outside... lots of other options like pepper spray or tazer..and they pump a bunch of rounds into the guy. Seriously WTF.. these guys seem too anxious to kill someone

If the guy came lunging at cops with a knife (which is what I suspect that happened), their training kicks in and their training tells them to pump as many bullets into a suspect until he's confirmed dead. Cops are not trained to shoot someone in the leg so he/she can live.

When all the fact come out this was probably a "suicide by cop":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

 

[Toronto`s Finest]

YEAH.... what happened to Tazer??? I didn't think they could shoot a guy that didn't have a gun.

 

[George The Curious]

Again? This seems to keep happening. already two shot dead in scarborough, both guys only had knives. Many years ago a crazy Chinese guy with a hammer also shot dead in street car by toronto cops.

 

[nottyboi]

If the guy came lunging at cops with a knife (which is what I suspect that happened), their training kicks in and their training tells them to pump as many bullets into the suspect until he's confirmed dead. Cops are not trained to shoot someone in the leg so he/she can live.

When all the fact come out this was probably "suicide by cop":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

Perhaps, but I don't see anything in the video that would indicate a "lunge" and with the suspect in a confined space there was every option to be deploy non lethal force. Right now it looks like a fuck up.... I suppose we should wait for the whitewash report...

 

[George The Curious]

YEAH.... what happened to Tazer??? I didn't think they could shoot a guy that didn't have a gun.

you are naive! Police can shoot you dead if they believe you have a weapon in your pocket! Fear them!

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Perhaps, but I don't see anything in the video that would indicate a "lunge" and with the suspect in a confined space there was every option to be deploy non lethal force. Right now it looks like a fuck up.... I suppose we should wait for the whitewash report...

You got better eyesight then me I guess.
I couldnt tell from video exactly what happened (even in fullscreen).

Arent all TTC streetcars equipped with CCTV cameras now?? If they are then we should have video of the entire incident made public soon

 

[nottyboi]

You got better eyesight then me I guess.
I couldnt tell from video exactly what happened (even in fullscreen).

Arent all TTC streetcars equipped with CCTV cameras now?? If they are then we should have video of the entire incident made public soon

He moved, but hardly at a pace that seems to put the cops in imminent danger. In that situation they should have immediately had other officers with tazer and pepper spray, with 2 cops with guns as backup in case. With all the questionable shooting incidents of mentally ill people, they don't seem to have changed their training or methods at all. This looks pretty incompetent to me. One guy with a gun with several people milling around. They should have backed off to diffuse the situation a bit.

 

[K Douglas]

Seems very over the top for someone with a knife IMHO. The guy was in a confined area, a bunch of cops outside... lots of other options like pepper spray or tazer..and they pump a bunch of rounds into the guy. Seriously WTF.. these guys seem too anxious to kill someone.

Well if the front line officers were allowed to carry tasers this most likely wouldn't have been the outcome. Instead of blaming the police without knowing the facts maybe you should look at the state of our mental health and justice systems that allows many violently ill patients to pass through a revolving door.

 

[groggy]

That's a lot of bullet fire for a man 10 feet away from police with only a knife.
They only way they can justify that shooting is if the victim was holding someone at knifepoint, in which case shooting them would have been very, very risky.

From the star:

A TTC spokesman confirmed there was no one else on board the streetcar at the time of the incident.
A witness at the scene said he heard anywhere from seven to 10 shots fired.
“The policeman said, ‘Drop your knife,’ and then they opened fire,” a man who identified himself only as Tom said.

Not good at all.

 

[George The Curious]

We don't know this for sure dont know that for sure. But this kindof incident happened enough and i've seen enough to conclude to police are bunch of thugs.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

For all we know the man couldve screamed "I have a bomb.....I have a bomb".

Then what?? Are cops supposed to wait till he blows up the entire city block??

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

Or reached into his pocket saying I have a gun.

 

[fuji]

I cannot see in the video what the guy was doing well enough to judge whether they were right to shoot him or not.

I can add two things:

First, at ten feet or so a guy with a knife is a lethal threat. He can fatally stab someone in a few seconds at that distance.

Second, once the cops decide to shoot they are trained to finish the job by shooting until you are down and you stay down, which is why they shoot so many times once they start shooting.

So the real question is whether he really did something to make himself an immediate threat. The rest is protocol.

 

[Mervyn]

He had a knife, that's one weapon, he also had another potential weapon, the streetcar itself.

 

[Rockslinger]

I doubt I can find a link so I won't try.

Long story short. A few years ago the police shot dead an elderly man waving a hammer during a domestic incident.

 

[5hummer]

We don't know this for sure dont know that for sure. But this kindof incident happened enough and i've seen enough to conclude to police are bunch of thugs.

The police should've shot the knife-weilding perp with a 10th bullet. No great loss.

 

[nottyboi]

For all we know the man couldve screamed "I have a bomb.....I have a bomb".

Then what?? Are cops supposed to wait till he blows up the entire city block??

You never shoot a guy with a bomb..he may have a dead mans switch, in which case he WILL blow up when you kill him. (Seems you have received the same level of training as the cops)

 

[nottyboi]

I cannot see in the video what the guy was doing well enough to judge whether they were right to shoot him or not.

I can add two things:

First, at ten feet or so a guy with a knife is a lethal threat. He can fatally stab someone in a few seconds at that distance.

Second, once the cops decide to shoot they are trained to finish the job by shooting until you are down and you stay down, which is why they shoot so many times once they start shooting.

So the real question is whether he really did something to make himself an immediate threat. The rest is protocol.

Maybe if that guy is Jean Claude Van Dam.... but having to egress the street car, and then launch an attack...really? Also the police had the option of BACKING THE FUCK OFF and calming down the situation. As for the street car being a weapon, just park a cruiser in front of it... seriously, are all you guys Toronto Police training sargents?