Mac or PC laptop

[WoodPeckr]

Gee WoodPeckr, you're starting to sound like a Linux salesman! lol

Anyways, this thread started out about laptops, when the discussion reverted back to the old Mac vs. PC arguments with comparisons on PII ageing machines and how well they still run, ....

Just had to counter your poppycock about how PCs don't last as well as Mac.
My aging PII kinda blows your Mac salesmanship points away.....NO?

BTW the way I still have lots of fun with that 12 yr old P2....it does all I require.
Many PC folks are still running PCs older than 5-6 yrs. If properly maintained they will still run like new.....just like my 12 yr old P2 does. ....


Resale Value?!?!?!!?!
Now that is funny really?
Who the fark trades in their PC or a Mac????
Most just utilize still for something else like a server, or for some special less demanding function.

Besides since you Apple fanboyz grow so attached to your Macs spending so much quality time with them, how could the thought of leaving them even enter your minds?
Wouldn't that kinda like be getting a divorce???.....

 

[Mable]

I know there is an endless debate regarding this. But I am in the market for one ( a laptop) and am thinking of going over to Mac (I have used pc all my computing life). It is a huge investment in money and time and I am not sure if it worth it. I am NOT a techie!! I do not go "under the hood" kind of thing (mostly because of fear and ignorance). Although if it is reasonably do-able I would devote a certain amount of time to getting more tech proficient. So my question is this:

Do I go Mac and become a slave to their tech stuff and high cost OR is it feasible for me to buy a pc and then teach myself unix (or the like) so that I can get all that good stuff that can allow my to get windows free? I do not like the Vista much and would sure like to become able to use my computer for what it can do for me. Now I only use it like most average people and miss out on 95% of what it can really do.

I must admit I was impressed by the Mac demonstration I saw, but WOW the cost is at least double!!!

Much appreciation for any help from this wannabee techie.

 

[robycapone]

why bother teaching yourself UNIX and wasting all the time and effort when MAC OS X is UNIX based anyways???

i've had my first generation Macbook for about four years now....got it the first week it was released...it was my first mac and its still kicking the flow!!!!

JUST installed Snow Leopard...and it runs fantastic!!!

 

[ig-88]

Ubuntu

 

[Goomer]

I know there is an endless debate regarding this. But I am in the market for one ( a laptop) and am thinking of going over to Mac (I have used pc all my computing life). It is a huge investment in money and time and I am not sure if it worth it. I am NOT a techie!! I do not go "under the hood" kind of thing (mostly because of fear and ignorance). Although if it is reasonably do-able I would devote a certain amount of time to getting more tech proficient. So my question is this:

Do I go Mac and become a slave to their tech stuff and high cost OR is it feasible for me to buy a pc and then teach myself unix (or the like) so that I can get all that good stuff that can allow my to get windows free? I do not like the Vista much and would sure like to become able to use my computer for what it can do for me. Now I only use it like most average people and miss out on 95% of what it can really do.

I must admit I was impressed by the Mac demonstration I saw, but WOW the cost is at least double!!!

Much appreciation for any help from this wannabee techie.

It is an endless debate, but myself being a Mac user, I'd never go back to Windows. All I ever preach is to learn both options, and make an educated decision. If you're interested in a new Mac, send me a PM and I'll send you a link that is a discount site for employees of a major bank. It is still the Apple store online, but offers $100 to $200 savings over the regular retail price for corporate employees (savings are based on what unit you purchase), and provides the same warranty coverage as a regular retail purchase. You don't need to provide any employee identification when purchasing online, other than clicking "yes" certifying that you're an employee or a family member of one. I won't post it publicly, but if you'd like it, I'd be pleased to send you the link via PM.

Cheers

Goomer

 

[oldjones]

Only you can figure the economics of it. But the under-the-hood part of Macdom has been entirely at my option for the twenty odd years I've been using them, except for one on-board battery replacement after a ten-year service life. And there's a very useful Apple-run owner's discussion forum to supplement any warranty service you buy. Or help you into your coveralls if you want to go techie.

Personally I advocate buying used everything—let someone else pay tp be fashion-forward, discover the built-in deficiencies and endure the first-scratch agonies. Never had the slightest reason for regret w/my various PowerBooks and MacBooks. And w/ the older stuff, even the service manulas are available for download.

There's lots of Mac freeware out there from Photoshop and Office rivals on down. But if your social/work circle doesn't include at least one Max-savvy acquantance you can call on as you unlearn the PCoddities that Macs do differently, you'll be frustrated from time to time. Macs for Dummies, and David Pogue's The Missing Manual sries can fill that need.

 

[Goomer]

Only you can figure the economics of it. But the under-the-hood part of Macdom has been entirely at my option for the twenty odd years I've been using them, except for one on-board battery replacement after a ten-year service life. And there's a very useful Apple-run owner's discussion forum to supplement any warranty service you buy. Or help you into your coveralls if you want to go techie.

Personally I advocate buying used everything—let someone else pay tp be fashion-forward, discover the built-in deficiencies and endure the first-scratch agonies. Never had the slightest reason for regret w/my various PowerBooks and MacBooks. And w/ the older stuff, even the service manulas are available for download.

There's lots of Mac freeware out there from Photoshop and Office rivals on down. But if your social/work circle doesn't include at least one Max-savvy acquantance you can call on as you unlearn the PCoddities that Macs do differently, you'll be frustrated from time to time. Macs for Dummies, and David Pogue's The Missing Manual sries can fill that need.

Purchasing used equipment is often not a bad idea, although if it's my main computer, I'd prefer new with the full warranty for sound sleeping. As to assistance with the transition, you'll find plenty of assistance online from us Mac fanboys! Most of us are always eager to assist new Mac users, especially those who have switched from the dark side.

Many new Mac users buy their Mac to surf, email and use Word. They find that their use of their computer expands quite a bit after they learn how easy it is to do everything, especially with the iLife suite of apps. Designing websites with iWeb, to editing and managing their photo library with iPhoto, to simple video editing with iMovie, most converts start doing much much more with their Macs than they had been with PC's.

Lastly, Mac laptops are the best in the business for reliability, quality, design, and durability. They are beautiful clean lined elegant machines (based on opinion of course, as well as numerous professional reviews) unlike most of the plastic moulded, sticker laden Windows counterparts that you can buy for a lower price. Bottom line is you are paying for a higher quality machine, as well the OS.

 

[Mable]

Thanks for the responses so far. I forgot to ask one question though. Mac upsells 1-1 teaching for $100/yr and extended warranty and tech support for $300 for three years. Is is worth it? If the Mac is so good why all this need for extended warranty. Further the salesman said in his pitch that to replace the screen is a $1700 job!! Why? Computer screens are dirt cheap now especially after the last anti-trust case determined the resellers were artificially elevating the resale price of them. Thanks.

 

[Goomer]

Thanks for the responses so far. I forgot to ask one question though. Mac upsells 1-1 teaching for $100/yr and extended warranty and tech support for $300 for three years. Is is worth it? If the Mac is so good why all this need for extended warranty. Further the salesman said in his pitch that to replace the screen is a $1700 job!! Why? Computer screens are dirt cheap now especially after the last anti-trust case determined the resellers were artificially elevating the resale price of them. Thanks.

Apple upsells their extended warranty, just like anyone else. There is no special need for it because it's a Mac, but just like any machine, things can break down long term, especially in a laptop.

 

[robycapone]

Thanks for the responses so far. I forgot to ask one question though. Mac upsells 1-1 teaching for $100/yr and extended warranty and tech support for $300 for three years. Is is worth it?

the 1-1 teaching is useful for many different things... especially if you're transitioning from PC to Mac... teachings can include anything from importing fotos and archiving them to helping you setup slideshows and such to putting together a keynote presentation (much better than powerpoint)

 

[oldjones]

Apple upsells their extended warranty, just like anyone else. There is no special need for it because it's a Mac, but just like any machine, things can break down long term, especially in a laptop.

In twenty-od years of Macs, desk and laptop I have never once had a problem I could imagine as warranty-worthy (an advantage of used is those 'gonna break in the first three years' items already have. And been fixed; and your research has revealed what they are.) and only once has any of the machines needed service I couldn't do myself with simple tools and/or consumer-level software.

On a new, untried model, paying for a warranty may make sense, although what makes more sense is downrating a company that releases stuff that it won't proudly stand behind. But even more sensible is buying reliable, banking the money and insuring yourself.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Ubuntu a Linux distro

Since you have to learn a new OS try Ubuntu, It's FREE.

Go to their site, they will send you a free CD of the OS if you don't want to download it. With that Live CD you can pop it in your PC and run Ubuntu to see what it's like. It's about as easy to learn as Mac. Then if you like it, install it on your PC or dual boot with Windows and learn Ubuntu at your own pace. Won't cost you a penny.

A buddy at work gave me this advice over 3 years ago when I was thinking about getting a pricey Mac. It was the best advice I ever got.
I am now BOTH Windows and Mac FREE!

Ubuntu OS and all their apps/programs are FREE.....
Ubuntu Forums are excellent for any questions you may have and just as friendly as this tech forum. They are huge and worldwide.


PS: Windows 7 comes out next month. Don't even bother with Vista.

 

[GDLLover]

Since you have to learn a new OS try Ubuntu, It's FREE.

Go to their site, they will send you a free CD of the OS if you don't want to download it. With that Live CD you can pop it in your PC and run Ubuntu to see what it's like. It's about as easy to learn as Mac. Then if you like it, install it on your PC or dual boot with Windows and lean Ubuntu at your own pace. Won't cost you a penny.

A buddy at work gave me this advice over 3 years ago when I was thinking about getting a pricey Mac. It was the best advice I ever got.
I am now BOTH Windows and Mac FREE!

Ubuntu OS and all their apps/programs are FREE.....
Ubuntu Forums are excellent for any questions you may have and just as friendly as this tech forum. They are huge and worldwide.


PS: Windows 7 comes out next month. Don't even bother with Vista.

This is good advice as Linux works well and is getting more popular.

I personally stay away from the Macs because of the 3-to-1 cost. Remember laptops endure much stress with being bashed around or even the opening and closing of the monitor wears on the hinge and plastic bits. They will fail eventually under stress.

I have never owned a Mac so I can't say how good their software is but free linux software is hard to beat the price of and much of it is quality apps.

You know how technology keeps changing and that state of the art pc you could buy 1 year ago is now on the low end of the scale, I don't think that is going to change (hasn't in the last 15 years or so) so I have thought buy middle of the road pc's and expect it to last about 2 years+. When you buy the next one you also get faster technology. Buy that expensive pc/mac now, you may not get the value out of it over time.

My 2 cents.

GDL

 

[Anynym]

Since you have to learn a new OS try Ubuntu, It's FREE.

Go to their site, they will send you a free CD of the OS if you don't want to download it. With that Live CD you can pop it in your PC and run Ubuntu to see what it's like. It's about as easy to learn as Mac. Then if you like it, install it on your PC or dual boot with Windows and learn Ubuntu at your own pace. Won't cost you a penny.

A buddy at work gave me this advice over 3 years ago when I was thinking about getting a pricey Mac. It was the best advice I ever got.
I am now BOTH Windows and Mac FREE!

Ubuntu OS and all their apps/programs are FREE.....
Ubuntu Forums are excellent for any questions you may have and just as friendly as this tech forum. They are huge and worldwide.


PS: Windows 7 comes out next month. Don't even bother with Vista.

While this would be okay advice for someone who is comfortable with technology, it is not something to be recommended to someone who doesn't want to get "under the hood" of a computer. I've known plenty of technical folks who are uncomfortable doing a Repair of a Windows installation. Installing another OS, even if it's simple, is something that is best done with someone around to make it a comfortable event.

Much better advice would be to go with a Mac at the present time. Sure, it's a little different than a PC, but I have yet to find anyone who doesn't find a Mac easy to use.

 

[Goomer]

This is good advice as Linux works well and is getting more popular.

I personally stay away from the Macs because of the 3-to-1 cost. Remember laptops endure much stress with being bashed around or even the opening and closing of the monitor wears on the hinge and plastic bits. They will fail eventually under stress.
GDL

Many people have claimed Macs cost more than PC's, sometimes double, but 3-1? I haven't heard the claim to be that high yet...I guess there is always a first! lol

The myth about Macs being more expensive has been destroyed on many occasions, often by IT magazine writers and blogs. First off, Macs are more expensive than cheaply made $500 Windows laptops. They are not the same machine, so you can't compare the two. Those cheaply made laptops have plenty of cheap plastic bits, weigh a ton, have batteries that last half as long as a Macbook Pro, and have lower quality hardware and displays. If you compare PC laptops that are of the same calibre of a Macbook Pro in design, specs, build quality, battery length, display quality and weight, you'll either find that they either don't exist (Mac laptops are rated the highest in most areas by most IT reviewers), or they are just as expensive or even more expensive. Macbook Pros are simply not the same calibre machine as a junkie $500 laptop! We won't even start discussing the OS and the ability to run Mac OSX, Windows, Ubuntu, or just about any other OS on the planet. And I won't talk about OSX Snow Leopard being the most advanced OS in existence. And lastly, I won't mention that OSX has no virus worries, unlike Windows!

So, is a Macbook Pro a more expensive investment than a cheap $500 laptop made of lots of plastic? Yes. Is it of the same calibre? No! It is like comparing a cheap car to a higher quality vehicle with lots of luxury and design. You don't compare them in price, just as you shouldn't compare a Macbook Pro to a cheap $500 laptop.

Lastly, a Macbook Pro will last you for far longer than 2 years, unless you're a real power hungry user (ie. gamer). The build quality, low demands of OSX, and the constant ability to update the OS to the latest version will allow you to enjoy it for far longer, probably 4-5 years. I am using my G5 iMac at home that is almost 4.5 years old, and it is still humming along nicely. I'd like to get a new machine on year 5 as my power demands are beginning to exceed its abilities (ie. my iPhoto collection is now exceeding 13,000 high resolution images), but the average user would probably still find it would work well for them. The resale value of a Mac is far higher than a comparable Windows machine because Macs generally last longer (because of the OS and the build quality of the hardware). So you can buy a cheap $500 laptop that you'll need to replace in a couple of years (and will probably be worth about nothing at that point in time), or you can enjoy the quality of a Macbook Pro at a larger investment, and it'll last you far longer (and would probably be worth something in the resale market after 4-5 years......4 to 5 year old G4 12" Powerbooks still sell for $500 on Craigslist!), and you'll get to enjoy OSX while you're at it, with no worries about ever having to deal with spywares, viruses, Windows reinstalls, hard drive partitioning etc.

 

[serviceman]

You should look at the refurbished section on the apple store website. I got a refurbished MacBook Pro about 9 months ago at a considerable savings, and with a full warranty. In fact there was a problem with the screen, and Apple happily replaced it without incident.

Yes, even the refurbished Macs are more expensive than some cheapo PeeCees, but you get what you pay for. Like a case machined from aluminum, glass trackpad, and tons n built in software and hardware.

And the best part of Macs; after using them for a year or so, they don't get slower like PC's because they don't accumulate all kinds of crap that slows them down.

BTW, this is a real Mac love-in, where are all the PCers whining about how wonderful windows 7 is? I hear its almost as good as OX8

 

[Goomer]

You should look at the refurbished section on the apple store website. I got a refurbished MacBook Pro about 9 months ago at a considerable savings, and with a full warranty. In fact there was a problem with the screen, and Apple happily replaced it without incident.

Yes, even the refurbished Macs are more expensive than some cheapo PeeCees, but you get what you pay for. Like a case machined from aluminum, glass trackpad, and tons n built in software and hardware.

And the best part of Macs; after using them for a year or so, they don't get slower like PC's because they don't accumulate all kinds of crap that slows them down.

BTW, this is a real Mac love-in, where are all the PCers whining about how wonderful windows 7 is? I hear its almost as good as OX8

My white Macbook I purchased a couple of years ago was a refurbished Apple store purchase. Saved a couple of hundred dollars, was in mint condition (anyone would have thought it was new if they didn't know better), and has worked flawlessly for 2.5 years now.

On another note, are you crazy? Windows 7 is at least as good as OS9! lol

 

[WoodPeckr]

Many people have claimed Macs cost more than PC's, sometimes double, but 3-1? I haven't heard the claim to be that high yet...I guess there is always a first! lol

The myth about Macs being more expensive has been destroyed on many occasions.....

Bullfeathers!.....

We have been all through this before and it's only been destroyed in your mind.
You talk like an Apple salesmen. LOL!

FACT:
The price of a Quad core Mac is $2900 for just the tower!
The price of a Quad core PC with equal specs more RAM including 19" LCD Monitor and in many cases a Printer is ~$600-$700!
So you are correct to question the 3-1 ratio.....it should have been 4-1.

Personally I'd get in Intel i7 processor which blows away the Quads and pay $1250 ......oh and this includes 19" Monitor & Printer!
An Intel i7 is still less than half the price of your Quad core Mac!

If the OP is not into power PCs that $500 laptop you call cheap will do all he needs.

Again PCs well cared for will last longer than 5 years. Surely the same applies to Macs. Heck I'm posting this with a 12 yr old Pentium II running Ubuntu that runs fabulous still. It also runs XP Pro but struggles a bit with M$.

 

[WoodPeckr]

The M$ vs Apple battle continues

On another note, are you crazy? Windows 7 is at least as good as OS9! lol

LOL!
Depends again on what boards you peruse.
Some boards claim Win 7 is better than Snow Leopard!

Personally I think Ubuntu is better than both!
And next month Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) will be released which will include 'Cloud computing'. Something both M$ & Apple are no where near offering!....

 

[Goomer]

Bullfeathers!.....

We have been all through this before and it's only been destroyed in your mind.
You talk like an Apple salesmen. LOL!

FACT:
The price of a Quad core Mac is $2900 for just the tower!
The price of a Quad core PC with equal specs more RAM including 19" LCD Monitor and in many cases a Printer is ~$600-$700!
So you are correct to question the 3-1 ratio.....it should have been 4-1.

Personally I'd get in Intel i7 processor which blows away the Quads and pay $1250......oh and this includes 19" Monitor & Printer!
An Intel i7 is still less than half the price of your Quad core Mac!

If the OP is not into power PCs that $500 laptop you call cheap will do all he needs.

Again PCs well cared for will last longer than 5 years. Surely the same applies to Macs. Heck I'm posting this with a 12 yr old Pentium II with Ubuntu that runs fabulous still. It also runs XP Pro but struggles a bit with M$.

Ah WoodPeckr, I wondered how long it would take you to chime in here on my comments. You're never far behind me, to pick apart my arguments in the most silly ways. We are not talking about Power Macs, which equate to about 2% (if that high) of the overall Mac market. These are IT professional machines that do not apply to the consumer market space. Besides, if we want to compare that segment of the market, you'll find PC makers making machines that equal the Power Mac price, or at least come pretty close to it. You cannot compare an Apple pro level machine to a base model consumer quad core machine. Please compare apples to apples, and not apples to cornish hens. Here is one example:

http://www1.ca.dell.com/ca/en/enterprise/workstations/workstation-precision-t5500/pd.aspx?refid=workstation-precision-t5500&s=biz&cs=calca1

As to the $500 machine, sure it will do all he needs. Just like a Chevy Cavalier will do all you need. But a Lexus will do all you need with more luxury, design, reliability, quality etc. You cannot compare a $500 cheap plastic laptop to the design and build quality of a Macbook Pro, which has been my argument all along. Just like you cannot compare a consumer level quad core machine to a Mac Pro. Please be fair when you make comparisons. Doing otherwise is not fair, and just makes you look silly. To say that a Mac is 2 or 3 times the price, is not a fair comparison. Because for some odd reason when people make this comparison, they choose the cheapest clunkiest PC and compare it to a Mac. Make the comparison with a higher end PC laptop (not just similar specs, but build quality, design, battery life, durability, weight etc.) and you'll most often find that Macs are actually quite competitive. Besides, as I've said before, many people new to Macs suddenly find themselves doing far more with them due to their utter simplicity (yet very productive and powerful).

Earlier I discussed long term durability. You then decided to compare to a desktop, when we were obviously discussing laptops. So I'll continue sticking with laptops, even though you want to distort comparisons once again. Take that $500 plastic laptop and see how well it runs in 4-5 years. And take a look at the resale value at that time. As I mentioned in my previous post, even a very old G4 12" Powerbook still sells for $500 in the resale market. Sure you paid more for it at the outset. But then again, it is a higher end machine, so you should expect to pay more. But the overall cost is not that different once you factor in its much slower depreciation, and the ability to recoup a good portion of your initial cost when you decide to get a new one!

And your 12 year old Pentium II? I'd like to see how fast it runs when you load and edit 10 megapixel images on it, let alone loading it up with my 12,000 iPhoto library (if you were able to run iPhoto on a PC, which you can't). That thing would be as slow as snail race, and would probably be as painful to watch as a naked BBW marathon!

Lastly, you claim that I sound like an Apple salesman. What do you call yourself then? You are just as fanatical about chiming in with your Linux comments as I am with Apple!