Toronto Passions

Looks like the IMF and Germany are getting it Greek style

TeasePlease

Cockasian Brother
Aug 3, 2010
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I found this article to be very informative.

http://www.theguardian.com/business...litz-how-i-would-vote-in-the-greek-referendum

"The rising crescendo of bickering and acrimony within Europe might seem to outsiders to be the inevitable result of the bitter endgame playing out between Greece and its creditors. In fact, European leaders are finally beginning to reveal the true nature of the ongoing debt dispute, and the answer is not pleasant: it is about power and democracy much more than money and economics...."





 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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It is not going to have a big impact on the financial markets anywhere. Greece is only 1-2% of the EU economy, and the debt is held by government institutions. The stock markets dipped yesterday, but were calm today.

But wait, Puerto Rico is going bankrupt also, and that may actually have a bigger impact on the markets.
 

Mr Deeds

Muff Diver Extraordinaire
Mar 10, 2013
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Here
It is not going to have a big impact on the financial markets anywhere. Greece is only 1-2% of the EU economy, and the debt is held by government institutions. The stock markets dipped yesterday, but were calm today.

But wait, Puerto Rico is going bankrupt also, and that may actually have a bigger impact on the markets.
Do you think the US would let that happen?
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
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nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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It is not going to have a big impact on the financial markets anywhere. Greece is only 1-2% of the EU economy, and the debt is held by government institutions. The stock markets dipped yesterday, but were calm today.

But wait, Puerto Rico is going bankrupt also, and that may actually have a bigger impact on the markets.
Not so sure. Greece itself is not a big deal, but the way this is going down puts much deeper scrutiny on all Eurobonds, especially the rest of the PIGS. Italy, and Spain are in really bad shape. What happens when populist govts are elected there? Also, just the failure can spread, as Greek bonds are marked down, capital structure of banks holding them deteriorates, default insurance is collected weakning insurers. Bond yields go up, driving interest rates up.. and so the whole cycle of tailspin begins.
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
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GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
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It is not going to have a big impact on the financial markets anywhere. Greece is only 1-2% of the EU economy, and the debt is held by government institutions. The stock markets dipped yesterday, but were calm today.

But wait, Puerto Rico is going bankrupt also, and that may actually have a bigger impact on the markets.

I hope you're right on this one danmand.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
27,106
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Room 112
If I was Greek I would have moved all my assets offshore long ago. Poor fuckers are going down hard.
The Germans and the Euro community shouldn't have bailed them out.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,484
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If I was Greek I would have moved all my assets offshore long ago. Poor fuckers are going down hard.
The Germans and the Euro community shouldn't have bailed them out.
I'm sure the US Treasury also felt that way when they let Lehman Brothers go under....
 

nobody123

serial onanist
Feb 1, 2012
3,568
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nowhere
Poor fuckers are going down hard.
The Germans and the Euro community shouldn't have bailed them out.
Not as hard as they would go down if they continue to sign up for the endless austerity programmes the EU and IMF want to foist on them. Defaulting may hurt 'em badly for a while, but their long term prospects will look better. Meanwhile, the Germans and the Euro community are going to suffer from this one too, and it's all because they refused to budge a motherfucking inch.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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Not as hard as they would go down if they continue to sign up for the endless austerity programmes the EU and IMF want to foist on them. Defaulting may hurt 'em badly for a while, but their long term prospects will look better. Meanwhile, the Germans and the Euro community are going to suffer from this one too, and it's all because they refused to budge a motherfucking inch.
I am sure the Greeks are quite happy to fuck the Germans over for all the grief they cause in WWII.
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
39,562
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Not so sure. Greece itself is not a big deal, but the way this is going down puts much deeper scrutiny on all Eurobonds, especially the rest of the PIGS. Italy, and Spain are in really bad shape. What happens when populist govts are elected there? Also, just the failure can spread, as Greek bonds are marked down, capital structure of banks holding them deteriorates, default insurance is collected weakning insurers. Bond yields go up, driving interest rates up.. and so the whole cycle of tailspin begins.
How do you know this?

Italy has never asked for a bail out and never will. Sure the country has a huge public debt and Berlusconi has to take his share of blame for this. But in terms of personal debt, Canadians are in far worse shape. Since it never sold out it's beaches to developers, it went through the building bust relatively unscathed. It's pension commitments are shrinking and the current government is pushing through it's reforms. Plus they've had to conduct rescue missions of migrants alone, the EU isn't doing much.

So unless you follow what happens in Italy don't make assumptions.
 

Yoga Face

New member
Jun 30, 2009
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We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors – including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries’ banking systems.

the economic model underlying the eurozone is predicated on power relationships that disadvantaged workers.

It is hard to advise Greeks how to vote on 5 July. Neither alternative – approval or rejection of the troika’s terms – will be easy, and both carry huge risks. A yes vote would mean depression almost without end. Perhaps a depleted country – one that has sold off all of its assets, and whose bright young people have emigrated – might finally get debt forgiveness; perhaps, having shrivelled into a middle-income economy, Greece might finally be able to get assistance from the World Bank. All of this might happen in the next decade, or perhaps in the decade after that.

By contrast, a no vote would at least open the possibility that Greece, with its strong democratic tradition, might grasp its destiny in its own hands. Greeks might gain the opportunity to shape a future that, though perhaps not as prosperous as the past, is far more hopeful than the unconscionable torture of the present.



Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate in economics
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts