Longshoreman Strike

[Darts]

I heard their median salary is $136,000.

Union seeks $8,000 ‘inflation adjustment’ for B.C. port workers on strike

International Longshore & Warehouse Union Canada seeking signing bonus in addition to wage increases of 11 per cent in first year and 6 per cent in the second year

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[DinkleMouse]

I heard their median salary is $136,000.

Union seeks $8,000 ‘inflation adjustment’ for B.C. port workers on strike

International Longshore & Warehouse Union Canada seeking signing bonus in addition to wage increases of 11 per cent in first year and 6 per cent in the second year

www.theglobeandmail.com

You heard? It's literally in the article. God I hope people read at least the articles they post themselves...

 

[Darts]

Yes, the linked article is the source for the $136,000 but not everyone read linked articles so I posted the $136,000 upfront.

The new offer (rejected) is offering $162,000, I am posting the $162,000 upfront because I learned from experience that not every member read linked articles either partially or in full.
ILWU Canada to recommend approval of tentative West Coast port labour deal | Container Management (container-mag.com)

 

[DinkleMouse]

Yes, the linked article is the source for the $136,000 but not everyone read linked articles so I posted the $136,000 upfront.

The new offer (rejected) is offering $162,000, I am posting the $162,000 upfront because I learned from experience that not every member read linked articles either partially or in full.
ILWU Canada to recommend approval of tentative West Coast port labour deal | Container Management (container-mag.com)

Lol ok.

I heard they rejected the new offer and that it was for $162,000.

See how weird that sounds? You probably think I am an idiot because you just said that. Why you said you heard it instead of saying it was in the article, I don't know. That also would been posting it out front but also not made it sound like you hadn't read the article. Strange way to phrase stuff.

Back on topic though, I'll point out that Longshoreman wages have come up in the past as well and it turned out that the corporations weren't being entirely forthcoming. In this case they're even "bargaining in public" which is very bad faith, and by the Union appropriately refusing to do the same we only get one side of the story. Same shit happened to postal workers several years ago.

The reality on the docks is that it takes a long time making minimum wage, or close to it, to get a permanent position and a union card to command those wages. It's often hard physical labour and demands a high degree of focus. It's also crucial to our transportation infrastructure and immune from outsourcing.

It's also generally not salary and the quoted figures assume 40 hours a week every week which doesn't always happen. In 2015, the corporation that manages the west coast ports in he US said a full-time Longshoreman made $147k, but it turns out the median income was only $83k.

Once again, some manager has broken the sanctity of the bargaining table and we've now only got half the story, but plenty of people are going to form opinions from it as is it's gospel. There should be fines for this behaviour.

 

[Darts]

The $136,000 or $162,000 is median, not average. (This is what I heard/read so I am assuming it is true. I don't have access to their salary records.)

 

[DinkleMouse]

The $136,000 or $162,000 is median, not average. (This is what I heard/read so I am assuming it is true. I don't have access to their salary records.)

No one does except the corporations and the Union, but the Union preserves the sanctity of bargaining and corporations constantly dodge questions when asked. During the 2015 negotiation reporters repeatedly asked what percentage of the workforce made the $147k and what the average was, and the corporations refused to answer. It's was only after negotiations that he Union finally spoke and revealed the average was $83k. Which is why no one is supposed to bargain in public and why these corporations should face massive fines for doing so.

It poisons the well to a ridiculous degree.

This leak on Longshoreman wages and wage increase proposals during bargaining is nothing other than Union-busting tactics that corporations have been doing for decades, and which have worked to the extent that they have stripped most people of unions, and therefore compensation and benefits, plus protections from unfair or unsafe labour practices, to the benefit of corporate profits and executive compensation packages.

It's tragic that the public keeps falling for this nonsense.

 

[Frankfooter]

No one does except the corporations and the Union, but the Union preserves the sanctity of bargaining and corporations constantly dodge questions when asked. During the 2015 negotiation reporters repeatedly asked what percentage of the workforce made the $147k and what the average was, and the corporations refused to answer. It's was only after negotiations that he Union finally spoke and revealed the average was $83k. Which is why no one is supposed to bargain in public and why these corporations should face massive fines for doing so.

It poisons the well to a ridiculous degree.

This leak on Longshoreman wages and wage increase proposals during bargaining is nothing other than Union-busting tactics that corporations have been doing for decades, and which have worked to the extent that they have stripped most people of unions, and therefore compensation and benefits, plus protections from unfair or unsafe labour practices, to the benefit of corporate profits and executive compensation packages.

It's tragic that the public keeps falling for this nonsense.

Metro workers are all on strike now here as well, at a time when grocery stores are making record profit they continue to refuse full time hours to workers and decent wages.

 

[Darts]

Old union proverb:

When a corporation makes a profit it is all due to the workers.
When a corporation loses money it is all the fault of management.

 

[richaceg]

Metro workers are all on strike now here as well, at a time when grocery stores are making record profit they continue to refuse full time hours to workers and decent wages.

Doug Ford not raising minimum wage got something to do with it...IMO, if they don't want to work...hire new people...tons of people looking for work right now...

 

[DinkleMouse]

Old union proverb:

When a corporation makes a profit it is all due to the workers.
When a corporation loses money it is all the fault of management.

I've been in unions for over 20 years, with almost 10 years in various executive positions, and I've never heard this. You sure you didn't just invent this?

But there's certainly some truth to the second part at least. A company can't be successful with bad management, but then it also can't be successful without a workforce. But for a successful company to turn around and lose money, it seems silly to blame the workers. Did they make decisions on supply, marketing and advertising, engineering, styling, design, new products to go far, old products to drop, etc? Nope. All decisions made by management.

What decisions are employees making that cause successful businesses to fail? Can you name a single one?

Managers assume a lot of responsibility, which is why they're usually compensated at multiple times what a worker makes. And certainly I'm not saying they should make the same as the average worker. The problem is their compensation is up almost 1500% adjusted for inflation. Workers are at 18%. And during the same time, corporate profits have skyrocketed, and I suspect that's due in large part to the decline of unions. A large portion of those profits could've been invested in workers, and in some industries, largely that stayed unionized, they have been and we find well-paid workers with good benefits.

But hey, don't let solid arguments get in the way when there's pithy remarks to make.

Some graphs for thought.

 

[DinkleMouse]

Doug Ford not raising minimum wage got something to do with it...IMO, if they don't want to work...hire new people...tons of people looking for work right now...

That's called "race to the bottom". Corporation making record profits and CEOs getting record compensation, and your suggestion is they would pay anything they want and if workers aren't happy with that, they should be fired.

This is why naked, libertarian capitalism fails. When one side can bully the other, it's not capitalism anymore: it's piracy. Capitalism needs to be regulated to protect people. Otherwise all those movies showing a dystopian future where all restaurants are Taco Bell and a handful of ultra rich rule over everyone else who are in abject poverty will become reality.

The weird thing is you might think you're well-off and so this doesn't affect you, but unless you're in the top 1% of global wealth holders, which I suspect no one on this forum is, you or your descendants are going to up in that same low class if nothing changes. Just like the poor in the US voting against universal health care, you're actively fighting against your own breast interests to protect the rich, and it's insane to me that people are stupid enough to do that.

 

[richaceg]

That's called "race to the bottom". Corporation making record profits and CEOs getting record compensation, and your suggestion is they would pay anything they want and if workers aren't happy with that, they should be fired.

This is why naked, libertarian capitalism fails. When one side can bully the other, it's not capitalism anymore: it's piracy. Capitalism needs to be regulated to protect people. Otherwise all those movies showing a dystopian future where all restaurants are Taco Bell and a handful of ultra rich rule over everyone else who are in abject poverty will become reality.

The weird thing is you might think you're well-off and so this doesn't affect you, but unless you're in the top 1% of global wealth holders, which I suspect no one on this forum is, you or your descendants are going to up in that same low class if nothing changes. Just like the poor in the US voting against universal health care, you're actively fighting against your own breast interests to protect the rich, and it's insane to me that people are stupid enough to do that.

If the corporation broke some laws...then charge them...if they're following guidelines, wage etc etc....these employees know this when they applied...if it sucks working at Metro....there's always No Frills, Costco Canadian Superstore, Loblaws, Sobeys, Walmart, FreshCo, Food Basics to choose from...

 

[Frankfooter]

That's called "race to the bottom". Corporation making record profits and CEOs getting record compensation, and your suggestion is they would pay anything they want and if workers aren't happy with that, they should be fired.

This is why naked, libertarian capitalism fails. When one side can bully the other, it's not capitalism anymore: it's piracy. Capitalism needs to be regulated to protect people. Otherwise all those movies showing a dystopian future where all restaurants are Taco Bell and a handful of ultra rich rule over everyone else who are in abject poverty will become reality.

The weird thing is you might think you're well-off and so this doesn't affect you, but unless you're in the top 1% of global wealth holders, which I suspect no one on this forum is, you or your descendants are going to up in that same low class if nothing changes. Just like the poor in the US voting against universal health care, you're actively fighting against your own breast interests to protect the rich, and it's insane to me that people are stupid enough to do that.

Cory Doctorow has a great take on where capitalism is heading, he says towards feudalism and 'renters'.
Musk is a great example of these changes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1684915465024598016

 

[bazokajoe]

If the corporation broke some laws...then charge them...if they're following guidelines, wage etc etc....these employees know this when they applied...if it sucks working at Metro....there's always No Frills, Costco Canadian Superstore, Loblaws, Sobeys, Walmart, FreshCo, Food Basics to choose from...

I was shocked at how much per hour full time Metro workers make. I thought that was a pretty good wage(+ benefits and a pension plan) for stocking shelves, checkout clerk and unloading trucks .
They are mostly unskilled workers. Do they really think they should be making alot more?

 

[richaceg]

I was shocked at how much per hour full time Metro workers make. I thought that was a pretty good wage(+ benefits and a pension plan) for stocking shelves, checkout clerk and unloading trucks .
They are mostly unskilled workers. Do they really think they should be making alot more?

I do some contract work at Metro and it's a pretty cool gig working there than No Frills or Food Basics...they aren't as busy as those mentioned and Walmart...that's why I'm surprised about their strike...LoL...their work load isn't comparable...I also shop at Metro...i like their selection of seafood...heck I buy swordfish steaks there....they're on the pricey side of groceries but you get what you pay for...

 

[DinkleMouse]

If the corporation broke some laws...then charge them...if they're following guidelines, wage etc etc....these employees know this when they applied...if it sucks working at Metro....there's always No Frills, Costco Canadian Superstore, Loblaws, Sobeys, Walmart, FreshCo, Food Basics to choose from...

This is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

So never negotiate? Get a job and never ask for a raise or anything to change? Get rid of durations in Collections Bargaining and just make them all indefinite?

They didn't wake up yesterday and decide they didn't like their job randomly. They're striking because they're negotiating a new agreement. And you know there are a ton of rules around striking right?

You say if the company is following all guidelines, leave them alone. And yet striking had guidelines too, and the workers are following them. Illegal strikes are called "Wildcat Strikes", but this isn't one of them. This is a legal strike in support of Collective Bargaining, being conducted by workers who are without a contract.

Imagine you aren't on a union but you sign a term contract to work until July 31st. The employer wants you to extend, but doesn't give you a contract. Are you really going to show up on August 1st on good faith?

These workers did. And eventually decided to stop. A strike is them saying, "I'm not coming to work until we can agree to a contract." They're not being paid, so they're not working. I'm assuming you know they don't get paid by the employer when they're on strike, right? The might get someone pay from their Union, but it's going to be pennies on he dollar compared to their regular wage. Last time I went on strike I made $28/day while on the job I got paid over $150/hr.

"these employees know this when they applied..." So contracts should be indefinite and no one should every ask for a raise. God you must really hate people to think that

 

[DinkleMouse]

I was shocked at how much per hour full time Metro workers make. I thought that was a pretty good wage(+ benefits and a pension plan) for stocking shelves, checkout clerk and unloading trucks .
They are mostly unskilled workers. Do they really think they should be making alot more?

Plenty were hired years ago and wages haven't kept up with inflation. So they actually earn less today than they used to once you adjust for inflation. Meanwhile the company is making record profits and the executive compensation has skyrocketed.

What you're saying is everyone deserves a raise except the employees?

 

[DinkleMouse]

I do some contract work at Metro and it's a pretty cool gig working there than No Frills or Food Basics...they aren't as busy as those mentioned and Walmart...that's why I'm surprised about their strike...LoL...their work load isn't comparable...I also shop at Metro...i like their selection of seafood...heck I buy swordfish steaks there....they're on the pricey side of groceries but you get what you pay for...

What has Trump got to do with this topic? Isn't he on Trial for his own problems?

"What has Metro got to do with this topic? Aren't they on strike for his own reasons?"

Or have you learned about context now?

 

[tml]

If the corporation broke some laws...then charge them...if they're following guidelines, wage etc etc....these employees know this when they applied...if it sucks working at Metro....there's always No Frills, Costco Canadian Superstore, Loblaws, Sobeys, Walmart, FreshCo, Food Basics to choose from...

....or, stand your ground and fight for better conditions/wages.

 

[tml]

Old union proverb:

When a corporation makes a profit it is all due to the workers.
When a corporation loses money it is all the fault of management.

I worked in a few different unions for 36 years and never heard that.
In fact, sometimes a union can be a manager's best friend. When they screw up or don't get something done it's easy for them to blame the union, even if the union had nothing to do with it.