Legal Help
- Thread starter Uzo
- Start date
what can you tell us...
I work with the legal community (no, I'm not LE) and hence know way too many lawyers.
Can you give us some details?
If you really did nothing wrong, can you prove it in court?
Were there points involved?
Do you have any previous history?
Was anyone else in the car with you.
Was there alcohol involved?
Do you fully understand the charge/infraction alleged?
Hope I'm not being too intrusive.
I work with the legal community (no, I'm not LE) and hence know way too many lawyers.
Can you give us some details?
If you really did nothing wrong, can you prove it in court?
Were there points involved?
Do you have any previous history?
Was anyone else in the car with you.
Was there alcohol involved?
Do you fully understand the charge/infraction alleged?
Hope I'm not being too intrusive.
I strongly recommend checking out the POINTS guys.
The inital consultation is free, so you have nothing to loose.
And, I think these ex-cops have a better understanding of traffic law and the traffic courts that the lawyers do.
A friend had a careless driving bargained down to an unsafe lane change. Didn't have to enter the courtroom.
Doing traffic law has to be one of the lower rungs on the legal prestige ladder. If you find a lawyer that specializes in it, you should ask why.
The inital consultation is free, so you have nothing to loose.
And, I think these ex-cops have a better understanding of traffic law and the traffic courts that the lawyers do.
A friend had a careless driving bargained down to an unsafe lane change. Didn't have to enter the courtroom.
Doing traffic law has to be one of the lower rungs on the legal prestige ladder. If you find a lawyer that specializes in it, you should ask why.
I went to points and they said I'm screwed.
Feb 18th I was driving my car to York University. Its was
about 1:25pm when I got onto the 401 (west) via Kennedy Road and once on, I merged onto the express from the collector.
As soon as I got onto the express, I signalled into the 2nd lane from the right, and then signalled into the 3rd lane from the right (I was in the lane beside the fast/passing lane).
From behind, came a cop car at a very high speed (atleast 120 KM/hr) and almost hit me from the back but instead, at the last minute the TorontoPolice Car swerved into the passing lane. This police car had ample time to see me come into the lane and I was not at fault.
Then, the car is beside mine and the 2 cops, (driver and passenger) stare at me and then all of the sudden cut me off my swiping into my lane. I hit my brake and almost lock up on the brakes.
Then the car zooms away and cuts in and out of lanes until it approaces the 404 on-ramp. At that point, without an signal onceagain, it just cut 3 lanes and went towards the on ramp. In frustration, I gave officer the bird (middle finger). He saw and gave chase.
He pulled me over and ran to my car like he was going to hit me. Then is stickes his face in my car and askes me if I like giving the police the finger. But he TOTALLY cut me off...put my life at risk....and instead of assulting him (road rage) I gave him the finger.
He takes me liscene and registration and then comes back with a careless driving ticket.
I dont know what the reason is for a careless driving ticket. I am
scared to death now. I didnt comitt any driving infraction. I signalled, followed at speed, kept my distance.
He just gave me the ticket.
The ticket has 3 mistakes...the year is 2001 instead of 2002....the province is missing...and my apartment # is missing....
I'm know I'm gonna be told that I was an asshole for giving the finger...but I was totally freaked out for what took place. I didnt know what to do.
I had the DAT test that week, an exam that day (which I failed when I was prepared) and from this litte domino effect of failing a test, scared of the careless ticket and other things...I've been seeing a psychologist for some time now and I'm about to be prescribed Paxil for the anxiety attacks I'm having.
I dont know what to do. X-Copper said that the mistakes that I pointed out would bare no relevance in court when my severity of the infraction is so high.
Also, I have no history with the police. I actually do some volounteer work indirectly with the OPP and havent even been pulled over for a warning or anything. Its 6 points and a $315 fine.
Feb 18th I was driving my car to York University. Its was
about 1:25pm when I got onto the 401 (west) via Kennedy Road and once on, I merged onto the express from the collector.
As soon as I got onto the express, I signalled into the 2nd lane from the right, and then signalled into the 3rd lane from the right (I was in the lane beside the fast/passing lane).
From behind, came a cop car at a very high speed (atleast 120 KM/hr) and almost hit me from the back but instead, at the last minute the TorontoPolice Car swerved into the passing lane. This police car had ample time to see me come into the lane and I was not at fault.
Then, the car is beside mine and the 2 cops, (driver and passenger) stare at me and then all of the sudden cut me off my swiping into my lane. I hit my brake and almost lock up on the brakes.
Then the car zooms away and cuts in and out of lanes until it approaces the 404 on-ramp. At that point, without an signal onceagain, it just cut 3 lanes and went towards the on ramp. In frustration, I gave officer the bird (middle finger). He saw and gave chase.
He pulled me over and ran to my car like he was going to hit me. Then is stickes his face in my car and askes me if I like giving the police the finger. But he TOTALLY cut me off...put my life at risk....and instead of assulting him (road rage) I gave him the finger.
He takes me liscene and registration and then comes back with a careless driving ticket.
I dont know what the reason is for a careless driving ticket. I am
scared to death now. I didnt comitt any driving infraction. I signalled, followed at speed, kept my distance.
He just gave me the ticket.
The ticket has 3 mistakes...the year is 2001 instead of 2002....the province is missing...and my apartment # is missing....
I'm know I'm gonna be told that I was an asshole for giving the finger...but I was totally freaked out for what took place. I didnt know what to do.
I had the DAT test that week, an exam that day (which I failed when I was prepared) and from this litte domino effect of failing a test, scared of the careless ticket and other things...I've been seeing a psychologist for some time now and I'm about to be prescribed Paxil for the anxiety attacks I'm having.
I dont know what to do. X-Copper said that the mistakes that I pointed out would bare no relevance in court when my severity of the infraction is so high.
Also, I have no history with the police. I actually do some volounteer work indirectly with the OPP and havent even been pulled over for a warning or anything. Its 6 points and a $315 fine.
Doesn't matter, all of this can and will be amended in court by the judge.Uzo said:
Defintly fight the ticket.
Looks like your gonna need professional help on this one, try out X-copper, but lately I'm hearing better things about X-crowns, tell them your story and see what they can do for you. Careless is not too nice on insurance so get this taken care of.
HTH
dont look at the cost of fighting the ticket as an expense, it will be small compared to the rise in insurance premiums for the next several years!
I had succes 10 yrs ago fighting a charge for an accident, was charged with careless ( rearended a car), and was totally dropped
Did not appear in court
Points!
I had succes 10 yrs ago fighting a charge for an accident, was charged with careless ( rearended a car), and was totally dropped
Did not appear in court
Points!
Fight it
Fight it,
Just expalinn to the judge the situation that techniavally you did nothing wrong and he can't give you a ticket if you did nothing wrong. Assert your right to free speech and expression when it comes to flipping the bird. Ties this up in the courts for a while.
Was it an OPP or Toronto Cops....Toronto cops don't have jurisdiction on highways
I don't see how he can give you a careless driving tickets since you committed no moving violation!
If the judge does find you gulity just plead for leanancy. They always reduce the fine.
Most likely the turkey won't even show up and you they will toss it out the window!
Apperance does count when you goto court, dress nice and shave and have know what your are going to say ahead of time. Have it layed out- don't ramble on!
Fight it,
Just expalinn to the judge the situation that techniavally you did nothing wrong and he can't give you a ticket if you did nothing wrong. Assert your right to free speech and expression when it comes to flipping the bird. Ties this up in the courts for a while.
Was it an OPP or Toronto Cops....Toronto cops don't have jurisdiction on highways
I don't see how he can give you a careless driving tickets since you committed no moving violation!
If the judge does find you gulity just plead for leanancy. They always reduce the fine.
Most likely the turkey won't even show up and you they will toss it out the window!
Apperance does count when you goto court, dress nice and shave and have know what your are going to say ahead of time. Have it layed out- don't ramble on!
Its was a Toronto Cop.
I talked to Points...and then I called that AutoShop show on CP24 once when they had a guy from X-Copper on and he told me to call him the following Monday..I did and he said that he would charge $300 and wouldnt garuntee anything since its "the officers word against yours" and on the CP24 segment, I asked him if the date would be cause for dropping the offence and he said no.
Also, a few friends of mine are in the police program at Durham College and they asked their professors on my behalf and were told, once again, that the mistake on the date is not that big of a deal anymore.
Sheik, I've read your posts on this board and know your a man with knowledge and experience and truly hope that you are right on this one.
I talked to Points...and then I called that AutoShop show on CP24 once when they had a guy from X-Copper on and he told me to call him the following Monday..I did and he said that he would charge $300 and wouldnt garuntee anything since its "the officers word against yours" and on the CP24 segment, I asked him if the date would be cause for dropping the offence and he said no.
Also, a few friends of mine are in the police program at Durham College and they asked their professors on my behalf and were told, once again, that the mistake on the date is not that big of a deal anymore.
Sheik, I've read your posts on this board and know your a man with knowledge and experience and truly hope that you are right on this one.
Astroboy said:
I went to Points in Scarborough... they only dropped my 6point to a 4 point ticket : (
And... I thought I had case too...
Sheik said:
Actually, the points guy told me that the cop can give you a ticket anywhere... he could follow you home for that matter.
Also, minor mistakes like wrong dates, missing address won't do any more. Unless it's a gross mistake (wrong car model/colour)... it won't make a difference.
MAYBE the cop was trying to scare you. It could be a BS ticket...
For what it is worth many years ago I too was charged with careless driving. I drive for a living and losing 6 points would have been devasting. University Of Toronto I belive they were called Toronto Legal Services at the time (not sure now) came to my aid free of charge I went for a consultation I belive it was on St. George St. and was assigned a lawyer. Now here is the thing they are last year law students who need so many hours of in court time before they are called to the bar. In my case I had a gorgous young blonde lady who got me off the ticket, I found they realy give it all they have because they are basicaly doing it for themselves to gain experiance. Shiek is right if there is one mistake on the ticket it is grounds for the judge to toss it as I have had this happen to me as well. Another option you may try is laying a public charge of careless driving against the police officer himself. He just gets paid to wear a badge and gun but he is a average taxpayer like everyone else. I have been going up and down the highway for 23 years now every day and I hate hearing this bullshit some of these cops try to pull. Good Luck in whatever you decide.
law students
the law students at the university of toronto legal clinic do not handle any traffic related offences.
you may wish to contact CLASP @ 416-736-5029 - the legal clinic at osgoode hall law school - located on the york university campus. they may be able to assist. as noted above, they offer services free of charge. they are law students supervised by a practicing lawyer.
good luck.
syn
the law students at the university of toronto legal clinic do not handle any traffic related offences.
you may wish to contact CLASP @ 416-736-5029 - the legal clinic at osgoode hall law school - located on the york university campus. they may be able to assist. as noted above, they offer services free of charge. they are law students supervised by a practicing lawyer.
good luck.
syn
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Uzo,
You have to fight this. And if it gets to court, you will want a lawyer for this one. Careless is too high a penalty on your insurance.
You need to follow the procedure to get a court date. This will be either on the ticket, or on a document given to you. I think you have ten days and it involves a personal visit to a Justice of the Peace. Go early in the day or expect to wait.
You will at some point receive "disclosure". This may occur on the first court date. This is the crown's evidence against you. You don't need lawyer for this, and if the cops are bluffing it will not go this far.
You will at this point know what the cops are going to say. Retry the X-Copper at this time. You can also call a 1-900 number and get a lawyer referral from the Upper Canada Law Society. Get the number from their web site, or the phonebook.
Good luck.
You have to fight this. And if it gets to court, you will want a lawyer for this one. Careless is too high a penalty on your insurance.
You need to follow the procedure to get a court date. This will be either on the ticket, or on a document given to you. I think you have ten days and it involves a personal visit to a Justice of the Peace. Go early in the day or expect to wait.
You will at some point receive "disclosure". This may occur on the first court date. This is the crown's evidence against you. You don't need lawyer for this, and if the cops are bluffing it will not go this far.
You will at this point know what the cops are going to say. Retry the X-Copper at this time. You can also call a 1-900 number and get a lawyer referral from the Upper Canada Law Society. Get the number from their web site, or the phonebook.
Good luck.
getting your court date...
is even easier than Paul's suggestion...go down to the 2265 Keele St Court Office with your ticket, go up to the 2nd floor, and go to the "Trial Date" window. There is a table in front of the window with a form for pleading innocent. Fill it out, hand it in, and then giggle when you receive notice of a court date about 1 year away. (just got mine for fighting a seatbelt ticket...ticket issued may 2002, court date:may 2003) They have a HUGE backlog.
There is another often overlooked advantage to pleading innocent to any ticket. The conviction isn't registered until your court outcome, so your insurance isn't affected for at least that length of time, and the fine, if any, isn't due until then either. But if convicted, the offense is dated at the ticket issued date, so instead of sitting on your driving record for 3 years, it only sits for 2. And in your case, Sheik could be dead on. Rather than asking that they throw the ticket out on a technicality, which judges hate, simply plead innocent, and provide details about where you were on the date in question, with backup affidavits. As everyone else has said before me, spend the money on a lawyer that deals with traffic violations. All of us are just avid easy-chair litigators, not experts
is even easier than Paul's suggestion...go down to the 2265 Keele St Court Office with your ticket, go up to the 2nd floor, and go to the "Trial Date" window. There is a table in front of the window with a form for pleading innocent. Fill it out, hand it in, and then giggle when you receive notice of a court date about 1 year away. (just got mine for fighting a seatbelt ticket...ticket issued may 2002, court date:may 2003) They have a HUGE backlog.
There is another often overlooked advantage to pleading innocent to any ticket. The conviction isn't registered until your court outcome, so your insurance isn't affected for at least that length of time, and the fine, if any, isn't due until then either. But if convicted, the offense is dated at the ticket issued date, so instead of sitting on your driving record for 3 years, it only sits for 2. And in your case, Sheik could be dead on. Rather than asking that they throw the ticket out on a technicality, which judges hate, simply plead innocent, and provide details about where you were on the date in question, with backup affidavits. As everyone else has said before me, spend the money on a lawyer that deals with traffic violations. All of us are just avid easy-chair litigators, not experts
Traffic ticket
One good tactic is to request a Trial in french. It is your constitutional right to have one in french.
The hard part for the prosecution is to get a provincial prosecuter who knows french (ie fluent enough to run a trial) and the court has to also provide a french speaking justice of the peace as well as a french interpretator.
This is extremely hard to do, one: because of the huge back log (for english trials) and two, many times they have to ship in a JP from afar and the bean counters will consider if it is worth the time and expense. Time will go by and the charge will be thrown out because your matter was not brought to trial in a reasonable time.
One good tactic is to request a Trial in french. It is your constitutional right to have one in french.
The hard part for the prosecution is to get a provincial prosecuter who knows french (ie fluent enough to run a trial) and the court has to also provide a french speaking justice of the peace as well as a french interpretator.
This is extremely hard to do, one: because of the huge back log (for english trials) and two, many times they have to ship in a JP from afar and the bean counters will consider if it is worth the time and expense. Time will go by and the charge will be thrown out because your matter was not brought to trial in a reasonable time.
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One point nobody saw fit to bring up.
In this instance of Road Rage, he gave the finger to somebody with a gun!
What were you thinking?
In this instance of Road Rage, he gave the finger to somebody with a gun!
What were you thinking?
Hire X-Copper or another paralegal firm that specializes in traffic ticket defence. NO lawyer is likely to know that much about this stuff. Lawyer's just don't do it. (Too small).
If you do hire a law firm, you'll be assigned the articling student - who knows squat about anything. Plus they'll charge you $500.
And WHY WHY WHY did you give the cop the finger????!!!!! Talk about dum!
It's a possibility the cop just wanted to play a mindgame with you and scare you. That could be why he messed up the ticket. Most cops are smart enough not to write 2001 on a 2002 ticket. After all, it's August.
If the cop doesn't really want to show up in court, he can always tell his cop-boss that he made a mistake on the ticket and didn't want to waste his time appearing on a loser case. Whether or not that's a REAL defence doesn't really matter if the cop just wants an out.
In any event, do what the real pro lawyers do. Go to court and wait and see if the cop shows up. If he doesn't, you're laughing. If he does, you can figure out Plan B then and there.
If you do hire a law firm, you'll be assigned the articling student - who knows squat about anything. Plus they'll charge you $500.
And WHY WHY WHY did you give the cop the finger????!!!!! Talk about dum!
It's a possibility the cop just wanted to play a mindgame with you and scare you. That could be why he messed up the ticket. Most cops are smart enough not to write 2001 on a 2002 ticket. After all, it's August.
If the cop doesn't really want to show up in court, he can always tell his cop-boss that he made a mistake on the ticket and didn't want to waste his time appearing on a loser case. Whether or not that's a REAL defence doesn't really matter if the cop just wants an out.
In any event, do what the real pro lawyers do. Go to court and wait and see if the cop shows up. If he doesn't, you're laughing. If he does, you can figure out Plan B then and there.
