Leaked 2003 GM NAIAS info

[SilentLeviathan]

A guy on another forum I frequent found this.

http://media.gm.com/events/2003naias/

It's all of GMs press releases for the upcoming 2003 North AMerican International Autoshow. If you look, you'll see most of the stuff is supposed to be released on or about January 3rd, 2003.

 

[james t kirk]

GM is shit.

If you want a car that will fall apart as if on que when your warrantee expires, buy a GM.

They are poorly engineered, poorly built, poorly designed, have poor quality, expensive pieces of shit.

When your engine seizes like mine did because GM cuts corners in engine production to save 20 bucks at 120,000 km, you will understand exactly what GM is all about. They will just stand there and tell you tough shit for you.

I can not stress enough what pieces of crap GM are building now.

And i used to love GM.

Not any more.

Ask yourself why they only give you a 3 year, 60,000 km warranty.

Because that's all their cars are good for. AFter that you start paying monthly for overpriced repairs.

AVOID like the plague unless you like being without a car and paying through the nose to fix it only to have it break down yet again.

 

[SilentLeviathan]

I made no claim as to the quality of GM's products. I just put this up in case there were any other car enthusiasts on this board.

I will agree that North American car manufacturers do have a long way to go in reaching the quality levels of Japanese and German manufacturers.

Personally, I find that North American manufacturers seem to try to win customers over with gadgets and trinkets rather then quality and substance.

 

[Major Major]

funny - chrysler just started offering longer warrantees, and making a big fuss about it, cuz their cars have such a shitty reputation. GM has been trumpeting how their cars have improved so much that they outrank Nissan - but mind you, Nissan has been having problems of late, with the altima and a few others.

SAAB, owned by GM, has a great reputation - but shitty resale values. the Pontiac Vibe is a thinly disguied Toyota Matrix - it should be okay. The Tracker is a Suzuki, but it has a bad reputation despite the Japanese connection. Many future GMs will have Honda engines, by the way.

Personally, your best bet is a Honda or Toyota product - both are reliable and have excellent resale values.

When buying a car - I suggesst relying on three sources - the APA to get an angle on things particlular to Canada (i.e., LemonAid - but membership has advantages too), secondly, Consumer Reports (NOT Consumer Guide, which is a pale imitation) for their approach is about as objective and scientific as possible, and finally the varous enthusiast magazines (Car & Driver, Road & Track, Automobile and Motor Trend) to get an idea of how fun and satisfying a car is, and the level of performance.

JD Power is also a good and reliable source of info.

If you look at the Consumer reports owner surveys, Toyota, Honda and Subaru (almost forgot about them) are tops.... US makes tend to do poorly, but have improved.

 

[_incubus_]

Many future GMs will have Honda engines, by the way.

Please post the source for this. It's a little early for April Fools jokes. I still haven't stopped laughing. For the record I'm a GM enthusiast.

 

[james t kirk]

I must admit, i was amazed when i heard that Chrysler was offering a 7 year warrantee. Say what you want, that can only be a good thing.

VW offers 4 years bumper to bumper and 5 years on engine and power train. Not bad.

GM, being the pieces of shit that they are, can still only come up with 3 year warrantees. If they offered any more, they would have to redesign their cars to last more than 3 years.

Gm seems to be angling towards cars are like VCRs. When they break, it's cheaper and smarter just to buy a new one.

 

[_incubus_]

For the record, the japanese don't send out recalls, they just fix them quietly when the car is in the shop.

A few months ago Honda issued a recall on almost every car in their line-up for select model years. Ended up being over 1 million cars affected.

BTW, didn't I hear that a Korean car company is offering 10 year warranties as standard? Kia? Hyundai?

Hyundai owns Kia and yes they offer a 10 year warranty. I'm not sure if it covers everything and if the power-train is covered for the full 10 years.

 

[SilentLeviathan]

For the record, the japanese don't send out recalls, they just fix them quietly when the car is in the shop.


There is no such thing as a perfect car as everyone has different tastes. I happen to like dodge and I think they are the best, but there are others out there that hate dodge with a passion....

I got a recall notice for my Maxima, but it ended up not need the fix so it was cool.

My Dodge Durango is a good vehicle. It doesn't have anywhere the same build quality as my Maxima, but I still like it.

 

[Major Major]

Please post the source for this. It's a little early for April Fools jokes. I still haven't stopped laughing. For the record I'm a GM enthusiast.

Sure - try http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/honda_gm991221.html

or http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_saturn_gets_honda/

 

[Major Major]

For the record, the japanese don't send out recalls, they just fix them quietly when the car is in the shop.

Wrong! For most "recalls" that are safety related, the US and Canadian governments require that the company send out notices to all known owners.

If you read the APA book, there are other types of recalls - some manufaccturers will officially offer to recall vehicles and fix items if there has been publicity about some problem or defect. Then there are "hidden warrantys" where a manufacturer will agree to fix a problem if you complain about it - GM had problems like the head gasket on the old Quad 4 engine, that was covered by this.

Someone I know just got a letter from Honda saying that the auto tranny on 2000 and 2001 Accords will be extended to 7 years from 5 - I assume they found some problem that is minor but expensive, and affects reliability not safety.

There might be cases where a manufacturer will fix something and not tell the owner, but I have never heard of it - likely these are things that are covered by the warranty and they don't want known, but are not covered by the government "safety" recall laws.

 

[_incubus_]

It’s possible the Honda engine might also be used in the Saturn L-Series sedan, but a GM insider says it’s unlikely any other GM division will use engines that aren’t made by GM or one of its affiliates.

I was little confused and frankly upset until I got to the end of the article and read that. I didn't realize this was old news. It dates back to 99. To be honest, this is the first I heard of it. I always thought the VUE was powered by the Ecotec and the 3.4L V6 (LA1). It's actually the 3.0L V6 (L81). As far as I know this is not a Honda engine. It could very well be GM is slimming it's engine line and eliminating some low end power plants replacing them with cheaper/less powerful/lower emission engines. Well you can't get anymore underpowered then a Honda. The L81 is only used in the VUE and LS1 sedan. I'm still not okay with this but I guess it's alright as long as it doesn't extended beyond the Saturn line. Which basically only is two vehicles as the ION will be powered the amazing little Ecotec.

 

[hoodoomeister]

Manufacturers sharing drivetrains

This is the wave of the future, my friends, so get used to it...

BMW is using a Chrysler engine in the MINI (even though Chrysler is owned by Mercedes-Benz). GM and Ford are co-developing a transmission. Subaru is owned in large part by GM, Mazda is owned by Ford, etc. etc. It's just one big happy inbred family!!!

For the record, my (Pontiac) Grand Prix gave me 285,000 km of trouble-free service, and Oldsmobile has a five-year warranty. I think Cadillac has the same. So do your own research, and don't fall for all the underinformed hype.

Check out some of the "trade" publications, such as www.autoweek.com or www.thecarconnection.com to see who's really building quality cars right now.

 

[mr. x]

hoodoo

the list could go on... jaguar and astin martin are ford, volvo is ford, saab is GM. VW is looking at buying Maserati from FIAT - GM was supposed to buy FIAT but FIAT is in trouble and GM can wiggle out of that...

there are diffferent issues around "quality" - J. D. Power mainly stufdies quality in terms of initial build quality, or quality after 1-2 years - long before the warranty has expired... though i understand they are moving towrds doing longer term studies too.

even if the GM Honda article is old, this type of thing has gone on for a long time, and will continue. the original ford taurus svo had a yamaha engine - and i think the vibe gt/matrix has one too.

ironically, up until recently, many european luxury cars had GM automatic transmissions, including Rolls Royce and BMW!

 

[hoodoomeister]

Maximadude -

The knock I've heard about Nissan is that they are focused on horsepower above all else. My first (and only) impression about the new Altima is that it has tons of balls, but the interior quality and ride are not quite up to some of the competitors' products. I couldn't wake up every day and face the acres of plastic on the Altima dash, but that's just me. Some reviews I've read mention this "cheap" feel to the interior, with a few experiences of broken, rattling or missing trim pieces inside.

This isn't necessarily a knock - Nissan have obviously decided to spend their money on the powertrain as the number one priority.

I know owners of a (new) Altima and (older) Maxima, and they love their cars. So who am I to knock them??? As long as they don't knock me for my five GM vehicles (out of my last six) we'll all be happy!!!

 

[_incubus_]

GM is catching up but very slowly. Maybe in another 10 or even 20 years!

I think you may be surprised. A lot is going to change now that Lutz is running the show.

 

[Major Major]

To respond:

Maximadude - I do not know what specific problems the Altima has - but they mentioned something like about this on a show on Speed Channel where they were testing it. I think it is along the lines of what Hoodoomeister says about cost cutting, and the fact that the build quaility isn't good with rattles and mismatched panels and so on.

Nissan is following Chrylser's lead of a few years ago - make great looking cars with amazing performance - but I fear that like Chrysler, reliability will suffer.

Lutz at GM is going down the same road - he knows how to build hot looking cars that will be a hit with customers, but his forte is not making them reliable or well built.

I read a story a few years back about how the automakers do tear apart each others cars - the Japanese pulled apart a German car, and it was overbuilt - far more welds than the Japanese thought were necessary. They looked down on the US vehicles - which were very crudely designed and built.

The strength of US automakers has been trucks - and traditionally many US cars are built like trucks - big and with simple technology - overbuilt in some ways because they designed to be assembled quickly and cheaply - and most importantly, low maintenance! Oddly enough, this is what the US market demands, despite the fact that the trendsetters and elites love European cars.

These days, Hondas and Toyoatas are becoming more American - the Accord we know is a different car from the European Accord (which might be impoerted as an Acura, to replace the Integra 4 door - the eL isn't sold in the US and lacks the sophistication they want in a car to go just below the TL).

Interesting note: Honda sells more cars in the US than they do in Japan!

The Japanese cars have been getting bigger and roomier, and they have cut corners because the Japanese are trying to steal market share from the big 3. In contrast, the European cars we see are designed for the European market, and other than slightly softer suspensions (becuase of bad US raods) are pretty much what is sold in Europe (except we don't get a lot of the best ones they sell over there!)