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[ncn2004]

I have been informed recently that they are out in force to take down these lovely establishments in numbers!

They have gone two ways...

1) They find someone who is frequently involved in the scene and make use of him...

2) They will pull the owner aside and offer him this:

"You give me 30 - 40% of your take every week in cash, and your business will go on untouched!"

This is a pretty scary thought, anyone else have any info???

I avoid asking too many questions as I do not want to be put on their radar.

 

[antlerman]

Well

On a funny note.....
Matbe with the City budget needing 10Million for police services.....this is a new way to increase user fees.

 

[urontop]

Is it possible?

Hey ncn2004 - is it possible someone might be trying to put the scare on you knowing that you are interested in becoming one of the competition? I do believe there are shake downs going on all the time - but an all out assualt would draw attention and if the take is on the last thing anyone wants is attention! I have an aquantance in LE Vice (distant but talkative)and they (the vice) are more interested in keeping the streets clean (street hookers and dopers) and will only start at the local MP's if they get nieghbourhood complaints and the like -and this does happen. It's another good reason (should you want to pursue your venture) to stay away from heavily populated areas, schools, kids parks, urbanite settings, etc. All of the MP's are slow with business right now and the movement of girls from place to place is not helping. If you proceed it's good to know that a solid, well trained and stable staff is key to success in the business. By the way screen well as there is always a mole who's out to clean out an IOU with the LE. Be as invisible as possible and try not to piss off anyone!! Good Luck!!

 

[wilbur]

. I highly doubt an officer of the law would risk being caught black mailing girls... and I also doubt the police would use an average person to do their undercover work... that's just NOT how police operate, as well any information they collect from clients cannot be used in court... it's called HEARSAY (unless the client would testify under oath, which is highly unlikely as they would be exposing themselves as well)

Your information sounds very suspicious and very FALSE .... I agree that it may just be a scare tactic.

My confidence in the OPD has taken a plunge recently, as a result of the guy in the Tim Horton's apparently getting beaten up by a person wearing an OPD police uniform. There are bad apples everywhere, even in a police dept. But it's when the chief goes on the record in the press and states that, despite video showing a very apparent assault having taken place against the TH patron, he implies that what we've seen doesn't matter as we still have to hear the testimony of the police officers. (You'd have tought that after the crown had dropped the assaulting a police officer charge, as well as the drunk in a public place charge, that the police chief would at least keep his mouth shut for the time being, pending investigagtion).

The police in the Ottawa area have used paid civilian agents before to infiltrate drug rings. These do testify after charges have taken place. The infiltration sometimes is so long term, that the agent will testify against those who may have become friends with them.

I have read that paid civilian agents may also be used by police to gather evidence against establishments, for laying bawdy house charges. They are also allowed to "partake" in sexual activities in order to gather evidence, and they will testify in court. I don't think that this has or would happen in Ottawa, because the conviction penalties would be very small compared to the amount that would have to be spent for the investigation. But these tactics have been used successfully elsewhere. Anyway, what bothers me is whether the OPD is turning a blind eye to (or even publicly defending) rogue police officers, who may attempt to gain financially from exploiting businesses operating on the fringes of the law.

When internal police investigations are generally seen as whitewash, the public can't have confidence in police integrity.

Wilbur

 

[Jabba]

Establishments?

I have been informed recently that they are out in force to take down these lovely establishments in numbers!

They have gone two ways...

1) They find someone who is frequently involved in the scene and make use of him...

2) They will pull the owner aside and offer him this:

"You give me 30 - 40% of your take every week in cash, and your business will go on untouched!"

This is a pretty scary thought, anyone else have any info???

I avoid asking too many questions as I do not want to be put on their radar.

ncn2004 - are you talking about MPs?
Forgive me, but you sound more than a little nervous if you start counting on word of mouth as fact. We've been to the well-known MP establishments and they've been successful over the years. That's due to a certain amount of give & take in tolerance on the city's part and good business behaviour on the MP's part. What happens to those places if LE starts shaking them down or other dirty tricks....the word gets around really fast and the cops get shut-out. This is a small town with a long memory. Once you lose trust - you really lose it big time.

Re other discussions on this thread - The deal with the guy getting beaten-up in TH is very strange - but I don't see a connection.

 

[wilbur]

Re other discussions on this thread - The deal with the guy getting beaten-up in TH is very strange - but I don't see a connection.

>2) They will pull the owner aside and offer him this:

"You give me 30 - 40% of your take every week in cash, and your business will go on untouched!" <

This is the stuff that's bothering me.
If some (hopefully few) officers can go around beating up persons and think they can get away with it, you can be sure that some other (hopefully few) officers would try and take advantage of establishments operating on the fringes of vague laws, and also get away with it.

Nobody was going to believe the TH guy, and he was going to be convicted of assautling a police officer, were it not for the security tape that proved otherwise. In the same way, nobody will believe the operator of a MP charged under our vague bawdy house laws that he was being extorted under threat of being charged, against the word of a police officer.

It has to do with the integrity and oversight of the police force, especially over its willingness to investigate and prosecute it's members. The chief showed that he's not interested in that. He's gone all out to defend a couple of his members, despite a very evident video.

We don't know where the 30-40% payoff allegation comes from, but I'd like to know if this has happened or is actually happening in Ottawa. Hopefully not, because I can't otherwise believe that the police dept has stooped so low.

Wilbur

 

[ncn2004]

I wont drag this thread on too long..

The last thing I will say is that It is wise to know what is happening, and doubting the capabilities of the OPD is definately not smart...

Listen or dont listen, this stuff is happening!

 

[Mable]

Look at the history. The cops do not touch the mp's. There are some in Ottawa that have been in business for 30 years. The cops know where they all are and what they do. It is the street action they are after.

 

[tdeem3]

Look at the history. The cops do not touch the mp's. There are some in Ottawa that have been in business for 30 years. The cops know where they all are and what they do. It is the street action they are after.

Untrue I know of at least 4 MP's, an escort outcall agency and a couple of Indy girls that have been nabbed in the last few years here in Ottawa. If you get too bold or flagrant then you will get a visit by your friendly neighbour hood police officer

 

[wilbur]

mod

Wilbur, did you see the whole video or just the 10 seconds on the news?

The video is over 30 minutes long.. So shut the hell up with your anti - police bullshit......


This should get things going a little..........WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I'm not anti-police by any stretch of the imagination. Just anti bad cop. I'm expressing an opinion and am not adverse to other points of view, unlike you it seems. Anybody's free to contradict me but there's no need to get personal. Looks like you're trying to set up a flame war.

Wilbur

 

[party_guy49]

Wilbur, did you see the whole video or just the 10 seconds on the news?

The video is over 30 minutes long.. So shut the hell up with your anti - police bullshit......


This should get things going a little..........WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I makes you wonder if the video isn't more of what that 10 sec clip shows. The original story in the Citizen says that Gauthier's lawyer was alerted to the tape by the staff of the store. Any cop who knows they did nothing wrong would have already had the tape.

Also the Crown upon reviewing the tape dropped the charges saying that the was no way they could proceed to trial knowing what was on the tape. Also if you think about it if he came in obviously drunk then fell asleep don't you think the store would have called police. Instead the female officer gets her coffee and donut before doing anything about him.

 

[Bluenose]

They read some excerpts from the police report on CBC radio and it really sounded like a complete whitewash. The video clearly contradicts the cops on a number of points. For example, the lady cop said she had a hard time waking him up but in the video he wakes up immediately. He may have had a few drinks but he wasn't wavering, staggering or agitated.

They just opened up a can a whup ass because they felt disrespected.

 

[wilbur]

Wilbur,

If you would have seen the whole video than you can say the cops were being abusive.
The TV or news didnt have the whole video they only had part of it.
The video that shown was leaked by the DRUNK IDIOT VICTIM's lawyer to help him get sympathy. Plus the idiot is suing for 140 000 bucks why doesnt he go for like 500 000 or a million if he really is a victim.

I am sure cops dont care much about MP or SPs since they have more violent and illegal BS do deal with that really hurts society.
Nobody forces people to go to SPs or MPs so whats the harm in it.

I've seen four minutes of the video, but I'm not so sure you and somebody else has. He wasn't drunk and did not assault a police officer. He was assaulted. Based on the video, the crown prosecutor agreed and dropped all charges. The prosecutor even referred the matter to the internal police investigation unit for "further action", since there was evidence of excessive force, and allegations of officers filing unubstantiated charges and making false statements.

The video wasn't leaked, as it was in the legal possession of the lawyer. It was also the employees of the TH who alerted the lawyer to the existence of the security tapes when he went there to get witness statements. Guess what they're going to say when they testify in the lawsuit.

The amount of the suit is what the lawyer advised his client would be an appropriate amount for damages in Canada;we're not in the US and multi-million dollar amounts don't wash here.

To get to the original topic, it's been apparent to me that MP's have been left alone in Ottawa, unless there have been complaints, and that makes me confident that I'm not going to get mixed-up in a raid on a place that has at least a business license... so far.

There's nothing wrong with people visiting SP's or MP's. Despite this, in some jurisdictions, especially south of the border, a lot of resources are spent on investigating and prosecuting so-called victimless crimes because the benefit is political, especially when the district attorney actually runs for office; he can then brag that he's protecting the public against "anti-moral" behaviour. We don't have elected prosecutors here, but politicians have a certain influence over enforcement policy. Some have a religious-right bent, intent on making a name for themselves, and no other politician is going to argue against them, unless they want to commit political suicide.

You're right: nobody forces persons to visit MP's or SP's. That doesn't mean that there aren't those few who will try to exploit this industry for their own benefit. There have been allegations of extortion/kickbacks, unsubstantiated so far. I don't know one way or the other, and I wish the person who came up with them would be more specific. However, I'm not encouraged about the future, when the police brass are seen to be trying to sweep away any complaints of wrongdoing under the carpet. Corruption can and will happen, especially if there's no will to crack down on it.

Wilbur

 

[tmb06]

Wilbur

Please tell us that you were at Tim Hortons that night and that you witnessed the entire event from beginning to end and that you heard what was said by both the officers and Gauthier, other than merely viewing 4 minutes of a very time delayed video that we have all seen.

Also please tell us of you knowledge of the liquor licence act, the trespass to property act and the criminal code. Also please advised us of you knowledge of police arrest powers under these acts, and police training and procedures for affecting such arrests in various sitiations. From what I have read in the papers, the police are governed by a use of force model, and according to the model and even when viewing the video, the officers followed what they have been trained to do.

I am sure I could send you any episode of "COPS" without the audio and background information of each arrest, and you would come to the conclusion that police are simply out beating everyone for no real apparent reason.

I am sure Gauthier was sober, that is why he was sleeping at 2:00am on a table at Tim Horton's when his hotel room was just accross the street. Happens all the time. Also, from what I have read, he gave indication to the female officer that he may have driven there and was about to drive away. A good idea would have been to let him just walk out of there and get in a car and kill someone or himself.

I suppose when uninformed people jump on a band wagon such as is happening now, police will sooner or later just start turining a blind eye to crime. Then we will have even more to complain about.

I for one am glad I don't have that job and have to deal with being second guessed by arm chair quarterbacks who know a little but think they know it all.

 

[wilbur]

tmb06:

Frankly, I wonder if we've been watching the same video. Here's the link to the Citizen article that contains the video link. Click on the little camera after the second paragraph.

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=b3da06c1-b93c-434c-ba2e-3ae337d4a085

There's at least 5 frames per second, so it's not choppy and time delayed and doesn't miss anything. I'm not an expert on the criminal code and all of those police methods and procedures you mention, but by your own admission, neither are you. I do have an opinion, and thanks for yours.

>I suppose when uninformed people jump on a band wagon such as is happening now, police will sooner or later just start turining a blind eye to crime. Then we will have even more to complain about.<

If you haven't gotten one of my points yet, it's that the police's job is to enforce the law of the land (not their own) by making arrests, not by applying punishment. That's only supposed to happen in banana republics and other police states, not in our fair city of Ottawa.

That's all I'm going to say about this off-topic matter. If anyone wants to continue this, please PM me, and I'll be glad to engage in a constructive debate with you.

Wilbur

 

[ncn2004]

The police in Ottawa seem quite interested in their own well being, money, and power... not the safety of the public or community.

They have hired quite a few new traffic patrols this year.. tickets provide funding to the departments.... When they set up at different locations in the city and ticket 100+ people a day, this is not a safety issue, it is a money and power issue. much more productive things that they could be doing.

Also, when things like this happen, and the department is actually going to defend them, this shows that they do not accept responsibility for their officers actions... Based ont the tape alone, they should bite the bullet and pay the suit without a defense... What is their defense going to be?? "We have the power to smash people's heads to the ground" ??

They should have no right to use force unless the suspect first shows a sign of aggression.

My two cents...

The problem in canada is that everyone is too spinless to stand up to political powers... People should stop them from doing this, including traffic blitz and other actions that are counter productive...

 

[Stiffy2]

wow

Thanks to the link to the video Wilbur. I had never seen the entire segment. The guy seemed pretty docile, and while he may not have obeyed the officer's instructions at the end, it sure didn't look like he was physically resisting. I counted 13 blows to the head by the male officer, of which 5 or 6 were pretty solid. The female officer gave him 2 or 3 punches too, for good measure. Pretty easy to see why the Crown didn't proceed with charges against the guy. The whole time, he's just peacefully drinking his coffee, and talking with the officers....then the leather gloves come out. Scary stuff indeed.

 

[jimjac]

who pays the law suit?

the tax payer you and me should not pay this law suit it should be the police pension fund and all this bs will stop yesterday as the older cops will put and end to the youg bucks blowing thier money DON1T YOU THINK?

 

[ncn2004]

Agreed... BS indeed! What a society we live in eh??

 

[DoubleDave]

That was great camera resolution eh? TH sure doesn't skimp on video equipment does it?