LCBO strike

Will you cross the picket line?

  • yes

    Votes: 106 80.3%
  • no

    Votes: 26 19.7%

  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .
Mao Tse Tongue said:
The LCBO is also one of the most corrupt organizations in the world. The people at the top decide what wines end up in the stores, and I can assure you they are well compensated by bribes and freebies. It's a fact.

You go Mao.

The LCBO recently very quietly hiked minimum beer prices, to $25.60 for a case of 24, a $1.60 increase over the previous minimum set in 2005. A spokesman for the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, which made the unpublicized decision on Nov. 24, said the price hike is designed to discourage immoderate drinking. "The concept is that if prices are low, consumption goes higher," spokesman Chris Layton said. "People buy more and drink more." Minimum prices apply to wine and spirits as well, according to the LCBO, but neither of those categories were affected by the recent decision. Margaret Miller, national president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving Canada, applauded the new prices, which apply to 40 of the 400 brands available in Ontario beer stores.

Well fuck Margaret Miller and all her friends. But what’s with the LCBO? What the hell do we want a provincial marketing board that wants to discourage marketing on the basis of sentimental, nanny-state theories?

What ever happened to the charges of corruption against LCBO purchasers who were taking kickbacks from EU wine and spirit makers and distributers?
Did that come as a surprise to any of you? The story just disappeared because Canadians find that kind of talk distasteful, and disturbed that some of our government officials are bleeding us like lampreys.

The LCBO loves to remind us that they are the single biggest purchaser of wines and spirits in the world. A private corporation would be using its buying power to pressure suppliers to get preferential purchase prices and pass them on to the consumer, or at least enrich the shareholders which in the case of the LCBO is also the consumer, or at least the state.

Not a government organization, with no oversight, however. “Hey France, guy? We want a hundred thousand cases of Piat Dior. How much?”
“Oh, you want to send me and my family on a tour of your facility, and B&B's in the region? That’s very kind of you.”
“You want to get me drunk and laid, before we sign the deal? Well, as long as we’re discreet…”

Two recent Prime Ministers, of opposite sides of the political spectrum, Mulroney and Chretien, were both found with sticky fingers, bribery on the one hand and tax fiddling on the other, without any repercussions. Same with the LCBO money men. Canadians have to stop being sheep, and demand accountability from our government.

I’m not suggesting a 407 style private mega-corp, take over, but its time we ditched this foolish, corrupt, inefficient waste of assets. The LCBO makes money in spite of its employees and management. It’s selling booze for gods sake. But nothing like the revenues it could be making if it were run by real businessmen.

Lets leave it off to the grocery stores and others in the private sector.
 
First off, there is no imminent LCBO strike on the horizon. The news link is from 2005!!!!!!! So calm down everybody....it ain't happening! lol

I used to be a fan of the LCBO concept. This was before I became a wine aficionado, and had taken some formal education on the subject. The LCBO stifles competition, prevents smaller wineries and other beverage suppliers from offering their product in Ontario (through bureaucracy), and severely limits the available selection. Yes, they have the Vintages program, where a good variety of international wines are available. The problem is that the all of this product is changed every 6 weeks or so (except for products listed on the Vintages Essential program). Let's say you go to Vintages and purchase a wine you never tried before. After a couple of weeks, you try it and are blown away. You now are a fan of this wine and want to purchase it on future visits to share with friends or family. Maybe you don't go wine shopping too often, so a few weeks passes before you venture back to do some wine shopping. Well guess what, there is a good chance that this wine you loved so much is gone and been replaced by different product.

The LCBO is one store that services the entire province. You can't offer 10-15,000 different products when you only have one store. There isn't enough shelf space to display everything, as most stores across the province need to stock the same items (or mostly, with some variance from store to store). The LCBO offers about 5000 different products at any given time. In Alberta, there are 15-20,000 different products available, since it is privatized. Now everything is not in one store, but you allow the marketplace to create specialty shops. One can open a specialty wine shop that focuses on the wines of Italy, or maybe the wines of Bordeaux. This allows you to frequent these shops to get products not available at the general wine shop or the supermarket, where only the Yellow Tails and the Mateus bottles are available (big shops tend to focus on what sells best and don't attempt to specialize in unique offerings).

Now this does not translate into lower prices. Wine in Alberta is usually more expensive that it is here, but you have a much broader selection available to you as a result of the privatized system. The province still makes their money through taxation (many pro LCBO people say that selling it will shed away all the profits flowing into the public coffers....this is not the case). Allow private business to absorbe all the risks and costs of operating, and just cash in on the sales by continuing to tax it the way you are now.

Another reason I am now anti-LCBO is due to the neglect of the Ontario wine industry. You would think that a provincially owned liquor retail monopoly would have a mandate to protect and promote its homegrown industry. Instead, it stifles it and makes it very difficult for wineries to sell their product in the LCBO stores.

Let's say you're a small winery operation in Niagara (many of them are pretty small players), where your entire production of this year's barrel fermented Chardonnay release is 30,000 cases. You decide that you're going to offer your product to the people of Ontario through its provincially owned liquor store. You contact the LCBO to find out what's involved in getting your wine onto their shelves. They tell you that they need a minimum of 100,000 cases of your wine, since it needs to be stocked in all of the stores throughout the province. You reply that you only produce 30,000, and ask if they can stock it only in the GTA area so you can have a little left to sell through your winery shop that caters to the burgeoning wine tourism in Niagara. They tell you nope. You then ask what price they're willing to offer you for your wine. They will buy all of it (if you can supply the 100,000 cases, which you can't), at $9.50 per bottle. This is because they need to mark it up by 64% in order to sell it in their stores. You reply that you sell it for $14.95 in your winery shop, and that if you sell it all to the LCBO, you will lose money (growing vines and making wine in Ontario is expensive, and you can't make VQA quality wine for under $10 per bottle...the economics don't allow it)! You ask if the LCBO offers some kind of program to assist Ontario wineries through a subsidization program, allowing you to stock it in the LCBO without being forced to take a big loss. They then tell you that they used to offer this, but this program has just been cancelled! They then tell you that if you want, you can increase the price to $12 per bottle, and they'll retail it for just under $20 in their stores. But, you will have to increase the wine price in your winery shop, because you're not allowed to compete with the LCBO, and your price has to be the same as it is listed in their stores. Of course, by doing so, you're taking your wine out of the largest buying market, since few people spend as much as $20 for a bottle of wine (80% of the market is for wine under $18 per bottle), but at least you're not taking a loss! But the LCBO tells you that if the wine is not selling well, they'll drop the price, expect you to take the loss (because they won't absorb any of the price reduction), and eventually delist you from their inventory!

So, if you're this winery, what are you going to do? Sell it all to the LCBO (if you can provide them with the needed quantities) at a loss and go out of business, or are you going to sell it at your winery shop at the same price that the LCBO was going to sell it for (around $15), along with your wine to home delivery online through your website? Let's see, take a loss or make money....oh god, the decisions one has to make in this life....what do I do???? lol

So, what happens is most of the Ontario wineries choose to go it alone, and sell through their winery shops (only located on their winery facilities). Most Ontarians will never get to taste good Ontario wine (we make excellent Riesling, Pinot Noir and Cabernet Franc by the way), and when they look at the Ontario section of the LCBO, they see plenty of Jackson-Triggs, Inniskillin, and other big players. Half of the offerings from these big players are not VQA (Vintner's Quality Assurance) status wines, but instead are "Cellared in Ontario", cheap plonk wines that are imported from over farmed locales such as Chile, Australia and Italy, bottled and aged here, and labelled as Ontario wines! This is why many citizens of this province have such a low regard for Ontario wines.

The other shopping alternative are the wine shops located in large supermarkets and malls. These 2 or 3 wine shop chains are owned by the big wineries (ie. Jackson Triggs, Inniskillin etc.) and they are only allowed to sell their own products, which most of it happens to be "Cellared in Ontario" product, and not so much VQA Ontario wines. And if any other smaller players decide that they want to open up their own wine shops in a local mall, they will quickly find out that they're not allowed. The rules were changed years ago, and the loophole allowing these shops to exist was closed. Since these existing players were already open and running, they were grandfathered in, and everybody else is prevented from getting into this fixed game!

My SO and I frequently visit Ontario wineries, first to taste and purchase excellent wine, as well as to support the local wine industry. This industry has become a major driving force for the tourism industry, as many Americans and other international travellers visit Niagara, not just for the Falls and the casinos, but to visit the Niagara wine region. Just ask the smaller winery folks in Napa Valley (California) how integral the tourism industry is to them. Many of them will tell you that wine tourism brings more revenue to them than wine sales in retail outlets.

The day that the LCBO becomes privatized and I have the ability to purchase from a much larger selection of both Ontario wines as well as wines from around the world, I will be one happy camper!

Cheers :)

Goomer
 
Privitization COULD work. If the LCBO sold the booze at their current prices to Supermarkets Liquor Stores etc. They in turn would add their cost to us.
We would be paying more but if you want it bad enough you will pay for it. Just look at smokers,whats a carton of weeds cost these days?
The Province would also benefit from the tax as well making even more money.
 
spankingman said:
Ive never seen a bottle of Bacardi Rum at the BEER STORE!!!!!!!!
Dude was complaining about not getting beer? :rolleyes:

a 1 player said:
When a union gets in the way of MY RIGHT to have a beer
 
the LCBO is beyond horrible at retail, and arrogantly punishing to the Ontario wines and spirits producers.

They are quite good at quality control. Checking for melamine, ethylene glycol, rats.

The Alberta experience is often cited. It is not a complete success story. Certainly it shows that just privatization isno panacea in liquor retail.

Store numbers in Calgary and Edmonton went up. Other small cities and towns lost out, some lost all their liquor retailers and thirsty Albertans have to drive long distances to next or next or next town. Also, a plethora of new liquor stores generated neighbourhood issues, crime, litter, unsightly vagrants. Not too nice if it's where you live or work or have your kid in a daycare next door. Also, the comment of specialty stores isn't completely true; a few tried, not too many survived. Most Alberta privatized liquor stores are the corner convenience store model: small, limited selection. Of course, there are 2, 5 more in the same city block.