Keto diet for fat loss

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
31,985
69,193
113
On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
''
In 1967, the New England Journal of Medicine published a literature review that reshaped how Americans ate for the next 50 years.

It was titled "Dietary Fats, Carbohydrates and Atherosclerotic Disease," and it concluded that saturated fat was the dietary culprit in heart disease.

Not sugar. Saturated fat.

Hence, the diet-heart hypothesis that governs much of modern nutritional thinking:

Saturated fat raises blood cholesterol, and blood cholesterol drives heart disease. Therefore, reducing saturated fat reduces heart disease.

The journal didn't disclose (and wasn't required to at the time) that the review had been funded by the Sugar Research Foundation (SRF), the trade association for the US sugar industry.

The SRF paid the equivalent of ~$48,000 in 2026 dollars to three Harvard nutrition scientists:

Frederick Stare (chair of Harvard Nutrition), D. Mark Hegsted (who’d later help write the first US Dietary Guidelines), and Robert McGandy.

According to internal industry documents uncovered by Cristin Kearns and her UCSF colleagues in 2016, the SRF hand-selected which studies the reviewers analyzed. Internal correspondence showed the industry communicating what they wanted the outcome to be. The Harvard scientists delivered it.

For five decades, doctors, dietitians, and government agencies built the case against animal fats — and the case for the low-fat, ultra-processed , seed-oil-enriched American diet — on top of that paper and the others that followed in its wake.

Now, the diet-heart hypothesis was accelerated by the 1967 review, but is itself older than that…


The strongest support came from Ancel Keys' Seven Countries Study, begun in 1958.

Keys tracked dietary patterns and cardiovascular outcomes across populations in Greece, Italy, the former Yugoslavia, the Netherlands, Finland, the United States, and Japan.

He found a correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease, and that correlation became the empirical backbone of half a century of dietary policy.

However…

The Seven Countries Study was observational.

It compared whole populations, so it couldn't isolate saturated fat from everything else those populations ate (like sugar, refined grains, processed food, and alcohol) or from how they lived, smoked, worked, and slept.

When you compare countries to each other, you compare ways of life. Critics raised this at the time.

In 1957, before the Seven Countries Study had even begun, Jacob Yerushalmy and Herman Hilleboe published a methodological critique of Keys' earlier cross-country work. They pointed out that broader data showed weaker and less consistent associations than Keys' initial analyses suggested.

The critique was largely ignored. The hypothesis kept moving.

By 1977, the US Senate's McGovern Committee report recommended reducing saturated fat consumption.

By 1980, the first official US Dietary Guidelines made that recommendation national policy.

The UK followed in 1983. The American Heart Association followed shortly after.

The policy was built on observational data, industry-influenced reviews, and a methodological framework that couldn't isolate cause from correlation. That was the foundation.

The randomized controlled trials, which are the kind of evidence required to actually establish causation, came later…


And they didn't validate the hypothesis.

A 2025 systematic review and meta-analysis published in JMA Journal pooled 9 randomized controlled trials with 13,532 participants.

The conclusion:

Saturated fat restriction did not produce significant reductions in cardiovascular mortality (RR 0.94), all-cause mortality (RR 1.01), myocardial infarction (RR 0.85), or coronary artery events (RR 0.85).

Earlier meta-analyses found similar things.

A 2022 review by Valk and colleagues concluded there was no conclusive link between saturated fat intake and cardiovascular risk.

A meta-analysis by Harcombe and colleagues across seven cohort studies and roughly 90,000 participants found no significant difference in coronary heart disease mortality based on saturated fat intake.

Across more than two dozen meta-analyses and systematic reviews now in the literature, the consistent finding is that the diet-heart hypothesis — saturated fat causes cardiovascular disease — isn't supported by the level of evidence required to enforce it as universal policy.

The science required to back the dietary guidelines, it turns out, was never assembled.

The guidelines remain in place anyway.


I’ve trained inside this system. My father was a doctor, too. The advice he passed to his patients came directly from these guidelines.

He wasn't lying to anyone, though.

He was repeating what his training told him was settled science.

The system trains brilliant, well-meaning people to repeat a consensus built on a paper, paid for by an industry, using a methodology that couldn't support the conclusion in the first place.

By the time the original premise was seriously questioned, three generations of doctors had already built their practices on top of it.

This is what I mean when I say the system isn't the people. The people inside it are mostly trying to help.

So if saturated fat isn't what we should have been focusing on, what is?


The newer markers tell a much more accurate story…

ApoB is the most important. It measures the number of atherogenic particles (the ones that drive arterial plaque buildup) in your blood. The 2019 European Society of Cardiology guidelines and the 2024 National Lipid Association consensus both concluded that ApoB is a more accurate cardiovascular risk marker than LDL cholesterol.

A 2025 review found 9 of 9 discordance studies showed ApoB outperforms LDL-C. When ApoB and LDL-C disagree on risk, the actual events track with ApoB.

Triglyceride/HDL ratio is one of the simplest and most informative insulin resistance markers.

A ratio above 2 (in American units) suggests metabolic dysfunction. Below 1.5 is good. This is on almost every standard panel and almost nobody uses it.

Fasting insulin is rarely measured in standard panels but tells you more about metabolic health than fasting glucose.

By the time fasting glucose is elevated, insulin resistance has usually been compensating for years.

Lp(a) is genetically determined and an independent cardiovascular risk factor. Many cardiologists don't test for it.

These are the markers that matter. The cholesterol panel your doctor runs yearly mostly measures the wrong thing.


Here's what to do with this information:
Get the right tests. ApoB, triglyceride/HDL ratio, fasting insulin, Lp(a), and hs-CRP (an inflammation marker) tell far more about your cardiovascular trajectory than total cholesterol. Most labs run them on request. Insurance won't often cover them, but they're inexpensive out of pocket.

Eat real food. Single-ingredient, animal-based foundation. Ruminant meat, organs, eggs, dairy if tolerated, fruit, raw honey, seasonal vegetables you tolerate well. This is what humans evolved to eat. The body recognizes it. The cardiovascular biomarkers respond to it.

Cut the actual drivers. Seed oils (canola, soybean, corn, sunflower, safflower) and ultra-processed foods are the dietary inputs most strongly associated with metabolic dysfunction. They drive insulin resistance, inflammation, and the apoB particle elevations that actually predict events.

Move your insulin sensitivity. Resistance training, sleep, time-restricted eating, walking. The mechanism that's broken in most cardiovascular disease is metabolic, not lipid-specific. Address the metabolism and the lipids follow.


The 1967 paper that started this is the foundation of dietary guidelines still in place today.
The science required to defend it was never built. The science that did get built tells a different story.

You don't have to fear animal foods.''

Paul Saladino
 
Jul 2, 2026
136
117
43
''
In 1967, the New England Journal of Medicine published a literature review that reshaped how Americans ate for the next 50 years.

It was titled "Dietary Fats, Carbohydrates and Atherosclerotic Disease," and it concluded that saturated fat was the dietary culprit in heart disease.

Not sugar. Saturated fat.

Hence, the diet-heart hypothesis that governs much of modern nutritional thinking:

Saturated fat raises blood cholesterol, and blood cholesterol drives heart disease. Therefore, reducing saturated fat reduces heart disease.

The journal didn't disclose (and wasn't required to at the time) that the review had been funded by the Sugar Research Foundation (SRF), the trade association for the US sugar industry.

The SRF paid the equivalent of ~$48,000 in 2026 dollars to three Harvard nutrition scientists:

Frederick Stare (chair of Harvard Nutrition), D. Mark Hegsted (who’d later help write the first US Dietary Guidelines), and Robert McGandy.

According to internal industry documents uncovered by Cristin Kearns and her UCSF colleagues in 2016, the SRF hand-selected which studies the reviewers analyzed. Internal correspondence showed the industry communicating what they wanted the outcome to be. The Harvard scientists delivered it.

For five decades, doctors, dietitians, and government agencies built the case against animal fats — and the case for the low-fat, ultra-processed , seed-oil-enriched American diet — on top of that paper and the others that followed in its wake.

Now, the diet-heart hypothesis was accelerated by the 1967 review, but is itself older than that…


The strongest support came from Ancel Keys' Seven Countries Study, begun in 1958.

Keys tracked dietary patterns and cardiovascular outcomes across populations in Greece, Italy, the former Yugoslavia, the Netherlands, Finland, the United States, and Japan.

He found a correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease, and that correlation became the empirical backbone of half a century of dietary policy.

However…

The Seven Countries Study was observational.

It compared whole populations, so it couldn't isolate saturated fat from everything else those populations ate (like sugar, refined grains, processed food, and alcohol) or from how they lived, smoked, worked, and slept.

When you compare countries to each other, you compare ways of life. Critics raised this at the time.

In 1957, before the Seven Countries Study had even begun, Jacob Yerushalmy and Herman Hilleboe published a methodological critique of Keys' earlier cross-country work. They pointed out that broader data showed weaker and less consistent associations than Keys' initial analyses suggested.

The critique was largely ignored. The hypothesis kept moving.

By 1977, the US Senate's McGovern Committee report recommended reducing saturated fat consumption.

By 1980, the first official US Dietary Guidelines made that recommendation national policy.

The UK followed in 1983. The American Heart Association followed shortly after.

The policy was built on observational data, industry-influenced reviews, and a methodological framework that couldn't isolate cause from correlation. That was the foundation.

The randomized controlled trials, which are the kind of evidence required to actually establish causation, came later…


And they didn't validate the hypothesis.

A 2025 systematic review and meta-analysis published in JMA Journal pooled 9 randomized controlled trials with 13,532 participants.

The conclusion:

Saturated fat restriction did not produce significant reductions in cardiovascular mortality (RR 0.94), all-cause mortality (RR 1.01), myocardial infarction (RR 0.85), or coronary artery events (RR 0.85).

Earlier meta-analyses found similar things.

A 2022 review by Valk and colleagues concluded there was no conclusive link between saturated fat intake and cardiovascular risk.

A meta-analysis by Harcombe and colleagues across seven cohort studies and roughly 90,000 participants found no significant difference in coronary heart disease mortality based on saturated fat intake.

Across more than two dozen meta-analyses and systematic reviews now in the literature, the consistent finding is that the diet-heart hypothesis — saturated fat causes cardiovascular disease — isn't supported by the level of evidence required to enforce it as universal policy.

The science required to back the dietary guidelines, it turns out, was never assembled.

The guidelines remain in place anyway.


I’ve trained inside this system. My father was a doctor, too. The advice he passed to his patients came directly from these guidelines.

He wasn't lying to anyone, though.

He was repeating what his training told him was settled science.

The system trains brilliant, well-meaning people to repeat a consensus built on a paper, paid for by an industry, using a methodology that couldn't support the conclusion in the first place.

By the time the original premise was seriously questioned, three generations of doctors had already built their practices on top of it.

This is what I mean when I say the system isn't the people. The people inside it are mostly trying to help.

So if saturated fat isn't what we should have been focusing on, what is?


The newer markers tell a much more accurate story…

ApoB is the most important. It measures the number of atherogenic particles (the ones that drive arterial plaque buildup) in your blood. The 2019 European Society of Cardiology guidelines and the 2024 National Lipid Association consensus both concluded that ApoB is a more accurate cardiovascular risk marker than LDL cholesterol.

A 2025 review found 9 of 9 discordance studies showed ApoB outperforms LDL-C. When ApoB and LDL-C disagree on risk, the actual events track with ApoB.

Triglyceride/HDL ratio is one of the simplest and most informative insulin resistance markers.

A ratio above 2 (in American units) suggests metabolic dysfunction. Below 1.5 is good. This is on almost every standard panel and almost nobody uses it.

Fasting insulin is rarely measured in standard panels but tells you more about metabolic health than fasting glucose.

By the time fasting glucose is elevated, insulin resistance has usually been compensating for years.

Lp(a) is genetically determined and an independent cardiovascular risk factor. Many cardiologists don't test for it.

These are the markers that matter. The cholesterol panel your doctor runs yearly mostly measures the wrong thing.


Here's what to do with this information:
Get the right tests. ApoB, triglyceride/HDL ratio, fasting insulin, Lp(a), and hs-CRP (an inflammation marker) tell far more about your cardiovascular trajectory than total cholesterol. Most labs run them on request. Insurance won't often cover them, but they're inexpensive out of pocket.

Eat real food. Single-ingredient, animal-based foundation. Ruminant meat, organs, eggs, dairy if tolerated, fruit, raw honey, seasonal vegetables you tolerate well. This is what humans evolved to eat. The body recognizes it. The cardiovascular biomarkers respond to it.

Cut the actual drivers. Seed oils (canola, soybean, corn, sunflower, safflower) and ultra-processed foods are the dietary inputs most strongly associated with metabolic dysfunction. They drive insulin resistance, inflammation, and the apoB particle elevations that actually predict events.

Move your insulin sensitivity. Resistance training, sleep, time-restricted eating, walking. The mechanism that's broken in most cardiovascular disease is metabolic, not lipid-specific. Address the metabolism and the lipids follow.


The 1967 paper that started this is the foundation of dietary guidelines still in place today.
The science required to defend it was never built. The science that did get built tells a different story.

You don't have to fear animal foods.''

Paul Saladino
Paul Saladino knows his shit. (y)
 
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Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
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462
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Thanks for research Oracle. I will listen to the MD. Saturated fat also has the most calories per ounce and the keto diet, like all diets, comes down to calories

One researcher wanted to prove this so he went on a junk food diet called the twinkie diet
and just counted calories and lost weight



In 2010, Mark Haub, a professor of human nutrition at Kansas State University, conducted a 10-week experiment on himself .
  • The Goal: To demonstrate to his students that weight loss is primarily about "energy balance"—consuming fewer calories than you burn .
  • The Diet: He reduced his daily calorie intake from about 2,600 to 1,800 calories . About two-thirds of these calories came from junk food like Twinkies, Little Debbie snacks, Doritos, and sugary cereal .
  • The Supplements: To avoid severe nutritional deficiencies, he also took a daily multivitamin, drank a protein shake, and ate a small serving of vegetables (like green beans or carrots) each day .
📊 The Results
Despite the unhealthy food choices, the results were notable:
  • Weight Loss: He lost 27 pounds in 10 weeks, and his BMI went from overweight (28.8) to normal (24.9) .
  • Improved Blood Markers: His "bad" LDL cholesterol dropped by 20%, his "good" HDL cholesterol increased by 20%, and his triglycerides dropped by 39% .
🧠 The Takeaway: Why It Worked & Why It's a Bad Idea
The experiment's success came down to one key fact: Haub created a significant calorie deficit . This weight loss, in turn, led to improvements in his cholesterol and other health markers .
However, nutrition experts were quick to point out why this is a terrible long-term strategy :
  • Not Sustainable: You can't eat this way forever. The diet is a "stunt" that shows a principle of weight loss, not a healthy lifestyle .
  • Lacks Essential Nutrients: It is devoid of antioxidants, phytonutrients, and fiber, which are vital for long-term health, cancer prevention, and disease control .
  • Risk of Regain: As with many fad diets, there's a high risk of regaining the weight once you stop .
Haub himself does not recommend the diet. He stated, "I'm not geared to say this is a good thing to do... There's not enough information to do that" . His key takeaway was about moderation: "I just think it's unrealistic to expect people to totally drop these foods for vegetables and fruits. It may be healthy, but not realistic" .



Update: I have been more restrictive since I saw the MD and I just broke 180 down to 179.4

I was thinking that was never gonna happen :)
 
Last edited:

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
31,985
69,193
113
On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
Thanks for research Oracle. I will listen to the MD. Saturated fat also has the most calories per ounce and the keto diet, like all diets, comes down to calories
I've read Saladino's book twice...He's since moved off some of his paradigms but that's what I like about him.

He's malleable to change and is always evaluating his progress.

Saladino would argue that all diets do not come down calories..Here's a quote.

''Contrary to popular belief- not all calories are metabolized the same way. Different foods create completely different hormonal responses and that determines whether those calories are used for energy or stored as body fat.''
 
Jul 2, 2026
136
117
43
I've read Saladino's book twice...He's since moved off some of his paradigms but that's what I like about him.

He's malleable to change and is always evaluating his progress.

Saladino would argue that all diets do not come down calories..Here's a quote.

''Contrary to popular belief- not all calories are metabolized the same way. Different foods create completely different hormonal responses and that determines whether those calories are used for energy or stored as body fat.''
That's one thing I've found to be quite true, although a lot of people will argue against this and say a calorie is a calorie.
 
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squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
28,199
23,536
113
''
In 1967, the New England Journal of Medicine published a literature review that reshaped how Americans ate for the next 50 years.

It was titled "Dietary Fats, Carbohydrates and Atherosclerotic Disease," and it concluded that saturated fat was the dietary culprit in heart disease.

Not sugar. Saturated fat.

Hence, the diet-heart hypothesis that governs much of modern nutritional thinking:

Saturated fat raises blood cholesterol, and blood cholesterol drives heart disease. Therefore, reducing saturated fat reduces heart disease.

The journal didn't disclose (and wasn't required to at the time) that the review had been funded by the Sugar Research Foundation (SRF), the trade association for the US sugar industry.

The SRF paid the equivalent of ~$48,000 in 2026 dollars to three Harvard nutrition scientists:

Frederick Stare (chair of Harvard Nutrition), D. Mark Hegsted (who’d later help write the first US Dietary Guidelines), and Robert McGandy.

According to internal industry documents uncovered by Cristin Kearns and her UCSF colleagues in 2016, the SRF hand-selected which studies the reviewers analyzed. Internal correspondence showed the industry communicating what they wanted the outcome to be. The Harvard scientists delivered it.

For five decades, doctors, dietitians, and government agencies built the case against animal fats — and the case for the low-fat, ultra-processed , seed-oil-enriched American diet — on top of that paper and the others that followed in its wake.

Now, the diet-heart hypothesis was accelerated by the 1967 review, but is itself older than that…


The strongest support came from Ancel Keys' Seven Countries Study, begun in 1958.

Keys tracked dietary patterns and cardiovascular outcomes across populations in Greece, Italy, the former Yugoslavia, the Netherlands, Finland, the United States, and Japan.

He found a correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease, and that correlation became the empirical backbone of half a century of dietary policy.

However…

The Seven Countries Study was observational.

It compared whole populations, so it couldn't isolate saturated fat from everything else those populations ate (like sugar, refined grains, processed food, and alcohol) or from how they lived, smoked, worked, and slept.

When you compare countries to each other, you compare ways of life. Critics raised this at the time.

In 1957, before the Seven Countries Study had even begun, Jacob Yerushalmy and Herman Hilleboe published a methodological critique of Keys' earlier cross-country work. They pointed out that broader data showed weaker and less consistent associations than Keys' initial analyses suggested.

The critique was largely ignored. The hypothesis kept moving.

By 1977, the US Senate's McGovern Committee report recommended reducing saturated fat consumption.

By 1980, the first official US Dietary Guidelines made that recommendation national policy.

The UK followed in 1983. The American Heart Association followed shortly after.

The policy was built on observational data, industry-influenced reviews, and a methodological framework that couldn't isolate cause from correlation. That was the foundation.

The randomized controlled trials, which are the kind of evidence required to actually establish causation, came later…


And they didn't validate the hypothesis.

A 2025 systematic review and meta-analysis published in JMA Journal pooled 9 randomized controlled trials with 13,532 participants.

The conclusion:

Saturated fat restriction did not produce significant reductions in cardiovascular mortality (RR 0.94), all-cause mortality (RR 1.01), myocardial infarction (RR 0.85), or coronary artery events (RR 0.85).

Earlier meta-analyses found similar things.

A 2022 review by Valk and colleagues concluded there was no conclusive link between saturated fat intake and cardiovascular risk.

A meta-analysis by Harcombe and colleagues across seven cohort studies and roughly 90,000 participants found no significant difference in coronary heart disease mortality based on saturated fat intake.

Across more than two dozen meta-analyses and systematic reviews now in the literature, the consistent finding is that the diet-heart hypothesis — saturated fat causes cardiovascular disease — isn't supported by the level of evidence required to enforce it as universal policy.

The science required to back the dietary guidelines, it turns out, was never assembled.

The guidelines remain in place anyway.


I’ve trained inside this system. My father was a doctor, too. The advice he passed to his patients came directly from these guidelines.

He wasn't lying to anyone, though.

He was repeating what his training told him was settled science.

The system trains brilliant, well-meaning people to repeat a consensus built on a paper, paid for by an industry, using a methodology that couldn't support the conclusion in the first place.

By the time the original premise was seriously questioned, three generations of doctors had already built their practices on top of it.

This is what I mean when I say the system isn't the people. The people inside it are mostly trying to help.

So if saturated fat isn't what we should have been focusing on, what is?


The newer markers tell a much more accurate story…

ApoB is the most important. It measures the number of atherogenic particles (the ones that drive arterial plaque buildup) in your blood. The 2019 European Society of Cardiology guidelines and the 2024 National Lipid Association consensus both concluded that ApoB is a more accurate cardiovascular risk marker than LDL cholesterol.

A 2025 review found 9 of 9 discordance studies showed ApoB outperforms LDL-C. When ApoB and LDL-C disagree on risk, the actual events track with ApoB.

Triglyceride/HDL ratio is one of the simplest and most informative insulin resistance markers.

A ratio above 2 (in American units) suggests metabolic dysfunction. Below 1.5 is good. This is on almost every standard panel and almost nobody uses it.

Fasting insulin is rarely measured in standard panels but tells you more about metabolic health than fasting glucose.

By the time fasting glucose is elevated, insulin resistance has usually been compensating for years.

Lp(a) is genetically determined and an independent cardiovascular risk factor. Many cardiologists don't test for it.

These are the markers that matter. The cholesterol panel your doctor runs yearly mostly measures the wrong thing.


Here's what to do with this information:
Get the right tests. ApoB, triglyceride/HDL ratio, fasting insulin, Lp(a), and hs-CRP (an inflammation marker) tell far more about your cardiovascular trajectory than total cholesterol. Most labs run them on request. Insurance won't often cover them, but they're inexpensive out of pocket.

Eat real food. Single-ingredient, animal-based foundation. Ruminant meat, organs, eggs, dairy if tolerated, fruit, raw honey, seasonal vegetables you tolerate well. This is what humans evolved to eat. The body recognizes it. The cardiovascular biomarkers respond to it.

Cut the actual drivers. Seed oils (canola, soybean, corn, sunflower, safflower) and ultra-processed foods are the dietary inputs most strongly associated with metabolic dysfunction. They drive insulin resistance, inflammation, and the apoB particle elevations that actually predict events.

Move your insulin sensitivity. Resistance training, sleep, time-restricted eating, walking. The mechanism that's broken in most cardiovascular disease is metabolic, not lipid-specific. Address the metabolism and the lipids follow.


The 1967 paper that started this is the foundation of dietary guidelines still in place today.
The science required to defend it was never built. The science that did get built tells a different story.

You don't have to fear animal foods.''

Paul Saladino
Paul Saladino is a grifter!

Anything besides calories in, calories out is a grift, plain and simple.
 
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Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
2,357
462
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I've read Saladino's book twice...He's since moved off some of his paradigms but that's what I like about him.

He's malleable to change and is always evaluating his progress.

Saladino would argue that all diets do not come down calories..Here's a quote.

''Contrary to popular belief- not all calories are metabolized the same way. Different foods create completely different hormonal responses and that determines whether those calories are used for energy or stored as body fat.''

That matches what I read.

In keto diet protein calories are used up more efferently in digestion plus they keep you full longer.

This is called the Thermic Effect of Food (TEF).

  • Protein has a TEF of about 20–30% (meaning if you eat 100 calories of protein, your body burns 20–30 calories just digesting and processing it).
  • Carbs have a TEF of 5–10%.
  • Fats have a TEF of 0–3%.

Bottom line it is the calories that are stored is fat that count not carbs.
 

boobtoucher

Well-known member
May 25, 2021
999
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That matches what I read.

In keto diet protein calories are used up more efferently in digestion plus they keep you full longer.

This is called the Thermic Effect of Food (TEF).

  • Protein has a TEF of about 20–30% (meaning if you eat 100 calories of protein, your body burns 20–30 calories just digesting and processing it).
  • Carbs have a TEF of 5–10%.
  • Fats have a TEF of 0–3%.

Bottom line it is the calories that are stored is fat that count not carbs.
Don't kid yourself. I just went through a 50 lb weight loss, counting calories pretty well and weighing myself every day.

over 50 lbs and 4 months the deficit calculated from CICO matched the caloric value of my weight loss withing 1.5 lbs.

If you can arrange your life so that you are only eating 1200 calories of mcdonalds fries every day, you will lose weight.

If you eat 4500 calories of boiled chicken every day, you will gain weight.

Neither of these will be healthy in the long run, but the weight effects will be true.
 
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irfanGG

New member
Apr 18, 2025
20
18
3
I tried Keto for about a year and quit, not because it wasn't working but because I just got sick of the grind and lack of carbs. I did end up losing quite a bit but I switched from Keto to just a calorie deficit and it worked just as well with the added bonus of eating delicious delicious carbs.
 

irfanGG

New member
Apr 18, 2025
20
18
3
I found it good to lose weight, but once I started adding carbs back, I became very hungry.
Yeah, that hit me a bit at first too but then I upped my protein and fibre intake and it curbed the hunger thankfully. There's some nice high fibre wraps I like to get from Costco. Something like 17g of fibre and only 90 total calories per tortilla.
 

Regents

Member
Jul 8, 2026
50
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8
Yeah, that hit me a bit at first too but then I upped my protein and fibre intake and it curbed the hunger thankfully. There's some nice high fibre wraps I like to get from Costco. Something like 17g of fibre and only 90 total calories per tortilla.
Are those the oroweats? I know they also have low carb bread called Carbonaut.
 

Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
2,357
462
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Don't kid yourself. I just went through a 50 lb weight loss, counting calories pretty well and weighing myself every day.

over 50 lbs and 4 months the deficit calculated from CICO matched the caloric value of my weight loss withing 1.5 lbs.

If you can arrange your life so that you are only eating 1200 calories of mcdonalds fries every day, you will lose weight.

If you eat 4500 calories of boiled chicken every day, you will gain weight.

Neither of these will be healthy in the long run, but the weight effects will be true.
3.2 pound per week ? It is very difficult to lose more than 2 pounds of fat per week
and very unhealthy and extremely difficult to lose 3.2 pounds per week over 4 months
if you did a lot of it was muscle

I do agree it is only calories in minus calories burned that count for weight loss but this thread is not about weight loss it is about fat loss
 
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squeezer

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I do agree it is only calories in minus calories burned that count for weight loss but this thread is not about weight loss it is about fat loss

I agree that the discussion is about fat loss, but you can't control where your body chooses to lose fat from.

What you can do is maximize fat loss while minimizing muscle loss by maintaining a calorie deficit, eating enough protein, and following a consistent resistance training program. That gives you the best chance of preserving muscle while your body sheds fat.
 

boobtoucher

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May 25, 2021
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3.2 pound per week ? It is very difficult to lose more than 2 pounds of fat per week
and very unhealthy and extremely difficult to lose 3.2 pounds per week over 4 months
if you did a lot of it was muscle

I do agree it is only calories in minus calories burned that count for weight loss but this thread is not about weight loss it is about fat loss
We'll agree to disagree. I'm as strong as I've ever been, and functionally stronger as I'm moving a lot less mass.
 

mazeena

New member
Apr 19, 2025
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its not unrealistic to lose 3.2 pounds a week, its only unhealthy if youre not morbidly obese because if you are losing 3.2 pounds a week with proper calorie counting is one of the easiest things to do
 

Big Rig

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May 6, 2009
2,357
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its not unrealistic to lose 3.2 pounds a week, its only unhealthy if youre not morbidly obese because if you are losing 3.2 pounds a week with proper calorie counting is one of the easiest things to do

I agree. If boobtoucher was morbidly obese then 3 pound fat per week loss is possibe because there is so much fat to be lost

I stand corrected, but medical supervision is a must with such extreme diets

I was speaking from my situation where I was obese but not extreme

I was 28.4 % body fat which is mildly obese

I am now around 22% which is healthy and well within normal

My goal is 18% which is called fit

At 18% I will be fit with health risks way down and as a great kicker I will look fit because I am no longer fat and because fat is no longer covering muscle
and I can exercise more without getting tired as less fat to carry around

A win win situation that does not get any better :alien::):):):):)
 
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