Ashley Madison

Is nuclear fusion finally about to happen?

basketcase

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As for the title, nuclear fusion is happening. It's just currently too expensive to be useful.
 

Yoga Face

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Some of the greatest benefits that fusion reactors present are fuel abundance and accessibility. Deuterium is a stable isotope and naturally occurs in place of hydrogen.

“The long-term fuel security of fusion would appear to exceed that of fission power and hence far exceed that of fossil-fuel energy. A fusion station would use about 100 kg of deuterium and 3 tons of lithium to produce the same amount of energy as a coal-fuelled power using 3 million tons of fuel

Another benefit of fusion fuel is that it is quite easy to extract from raw materials. Deuterium can be separated from oxygen in water by electrolysis

Another positive aspect of the fusion reactor’s fuel is that it is not harmful for the environment and safety risks associated with its storage and handling are minimal. The most important component of the reaction, Deuterium, is a stable isotope and thus produces no radioactivity. The only threat it could pose is flammability, because chemically, Deuterium reacts like hydrogen. But this property is not a big problem, since reasonable techniques for storing hydrogen have already been developed.


http://pitjournal.unc.edu/article/energy-source-tomorrow-benefits-nuclear-fusion-power








[video]http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Nuclear+Fusion+Reactor&FORM=RESTAB#view=detail&mid=9732AC0F1E4C2271CECF9732AC0F1E4C2271CECF[/video]
 
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GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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Some of the greatest benefits that fusion reactors present are fuel abundance and accessibility. Deuterium is a stable isotope and naturally occurs in place of hydrogen.

“The long-term fuel security of fusion would appear to exceed that of fission power and hence far exceed that of fossil-fuel energy. A fusion station would use about 100 kg of deuterium and 3 tons of lithium to produce the same amount of energy as a coal-fuelled power using 3 million tons of fuel

Another benefit of fusion fuel is that it is quite easy to extract from raw materials. Deuterium can be separated from oxygen in water by electrolysis

Another positive aspect of the fusion reactor’s fuel is that it is not harmful for the environment and safety risks associated with its storage and handling are minimal. The most important component of the reaction, Deuterium, is a stable isotope and thus produces no radioactivity. The only threat it could pose is flammability, because chemically, Deuterium reacts like hydrogen. But this property is not a big problem, since reasonable techniques for storing hydrogen have already been developed.


http://pitjournal.unc.edu/article/energy-source-tomorrow-benefits-nuclear-fusion-power








[video]http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Nuclear+Fusion+Reactor&FORM=RESTAB#view=detail&mid=9732AC0F1E4C2271CECF9732AC0F1E4C2271CECF[/video]


Aren't neutrons a by-product of the fusion process? Can they be screened out or shielded? Do they easily dissipate as harmless radiation?

Big oil will buy the patents, unless government (including JVs entered into for the common good) creates it for the people.
 

Yoga Face

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Aren't neutrons a by-product of the fusion process? Can they be screened out or shielded? Do they easily dissipate as harmless radiation?
deuterium-tritium (D-T) fusion reaction, high energy neutrons are released along with helium atoms. These electrically-neutral particles escape the plasma contained within the magnetic fields of the tokamak and are absorbed by the "blanket modules" of the surrounding walls. If these blanket modules contain lithium, a reaction occurs: the incoming neutron is absorbed by the lithium atom, which recombines into an atom of tritium and an atom of helium. The tritium can then be removed from the blanket and recycled into the plasma as fuel.
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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deuterium-tritium (D-T) fusion reaction, high energy neutrons are released along with helium atoms. These electrically-neutral particles escape the plasma contained within the magnetic fields of the tokamak and are absorbed by the "blanket modules" of the surrounding walls. If these blanket modules contain lithium, a reaction occurs: the incoming neutron is absorbed by the lithium atom, which recombines into an atom of tritium and an atom of helium. The tritium can then be removed from the blanket and recycled into the plasma as fuel.
So they are shielded and absorbed/dissipated? What if the blanket doesn't contain lithium? No 'recycling' occurs, but neutrons are safely shielded or absorbed just the same?
 

Yoga Face

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So they are shielded and absorbed/dissipated? What if the blanket doesn't contain lithium? No 'recycling' occurs, but neutrons are safely shielded or absorbed just the same?

fuck if i know
 

Viggo Rasmussen

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Another benefit of fusion fuel is that it is quite easy to extract from raw materials. Deuterium can be separated from oxygen in water by electrolysis
I imagine this process is prohibitively expensive, even more so if the ocean's salt water is used.
But the expense of the current methods of getting energy don't factor in the costs of lives in waging war for oil, the costs of destruction due to pollution, or the costs of radiation problems we're now experiencing with damaged nuclear plants.
 

Yoga Face

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I imagine this process is prohibitively expensive, even more so if the ocean's salt water is used.
no, not at all

But the expense of the current methods of getting energy don't factor in the costs of lives in waging war for oil, the costs of destruction due to pollution, or the costs of radiation problems we're now experiencing with damaged nuclear plants.
exactly


oil wars may destroy mankind

japan entered ww2 over oil

iraq was over oil


civil wars in africa over oil


oil wars will only get bigger
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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So they are shielded and absorbed/dissipated? What if the blanket doesn't contain lithium? No 'recycling' occurs, but neutrons are safely shielded or absorbed just the same?
High energy neutrons can be extremely dangerous to life. On the plus side, they are easily scattered by small atoms or molecules so their dangerous range is small (thick lead walls aren't needed). Concrete works well or even vessels with water. The workers there would have to be protected but the rest of the public would be fine. A fission power plant is dangerous because an uncontrolled chain reaction can cause a meltdown. Fusion does not use chain reactions and is easily cooled so the kaboom risk is much much smaller (unless you believe that whole creating a black hole theory). Plus we won't have to deal with radioactive waste with thousand year half lives.
 

basketcase

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I imagine this process is prohibitively expensive, even more so if the ocean's salt water is used.
But the expense of the current methods of getting energy don't factor in the costs of lives in waging war for oil, the costs of destruction due to pollution, or the costs of radiation problems we're now experiencing with damaged nuclear plants.
Despite what Yoga says, currently very expensive which is why we aren't using it. As I mentioned in another thread, one of the American universities has created a plan for a 'cheap' fusion reactor but that's all still just on paper.
 

Submariner

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Sep 5, 2012
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Some of the greatest benefits that fusion reactors present are fuel abundance and accessibility. Deuterium is a stable isotope and naturally occurs in place of hydrogen. Another benefit of fusion fuel is that it is quite easy to extract from raw materials. Deuterium can be separated from oxygen in water by electrolysis
Deuterium does not occur in the place of hydrogen. Deuterium is one of three isotopes of hydrogen, the others being protium (by far the most common) and tritium (which is radioactive). Also, electrolysis mostly separates hydrogen from oxygen, you still need to separate the deuterium from the protium. The most common method to extract deuterium from water is a chemical method known as the Girdler sulphide process, a dual phase, dual temperature isotopic exchange, the method used at the former Bruce Heavy water plant on Lake Huron. Which brings up another point .... deuterium occurs naturally in fresh water, not just sea water.

Another positive aspect of the fusion reactor’s fuel is that it is not harmful for the environment and safety risks associated with its storage and handling are minimal. The most important component of the reaction, Deuterium, is a stable isotope and thus produces no radioactivity.
Not quite. Deuterium readily absorbs neutrons to become tritium, the radioactive hydrogen isotope. This happens all the time in Ontario's CANDU reactors. Tritium is an worker safety and environmental issue, hence the Darlington Tritium Removal Facility.
 

Submariner

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I imagine this process is prohibitively expensive, even more so if the ocean's salt water is used./QUOTE]
Very little of the world's purified deuterium inventory was taken from seawater. Deuterium occurs naturally in freshwater, so why would you ever want to want to process seawater?
 

Submariner

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So they are shielded and absorbed/dissipated? What if the blanket doesn't contain lithium? No 'recycling' occurs, but neutrons are safely shielded or absorbed just the same?
The lithium in the blanket is not actually a fuel. The "fuel" is deuterium and tritium, and the energy released is from the fusion of these two isotopes. The lithium in the blanket breeds more tritium by neutron capture, and then this new tritium is recycled nd ultimately used in the ongoing fusion reactions. Without the lithium in the blanket, additional tritium would have to be introduced into the torus. Tritium ain't cheap and it ain't available at Canadian Tire.
 

Submariner

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The largest fusion energy project ever undertaken (known as ITER) is currently under construction in France, a collaboration of USA, Russia, Japan, the EU and a few others. Canada was a member of the ITER project (oddly enough, as part of the EU), but under the leadership of Jean Chretien decided to pull out of the project, despite having Darlington proposed as the project site. To make matters worse, the initial evaluations of the various sites in Japan, France, Spain, and Canada resulted in Darlington being rated as the favoured site for this $50B project. But Canada's bid had to be pulled (i.e. disqualified) when the feds refused to put up any money in support of the project. The feds said they would throw in their share only if we won project site. The ITER folks said ... no, you commit your money up front just like everyone else regardless of where the site is located. Canada's proposal was dropped and the project was eventually sited at Cadarache, France.

For those interested in more about how fusion reactors work, and about the ITER project, the ITER website http://www.iter.org/ has lots of information, including this introductory video which is also posted on Youtube.
 

basketcase

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Why does France get all the cool physics toys? Am I the only one who would love a tour of ITER and CERN?
 

IM469

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Canada .. but under the leadership of Jean Chretien decided to pull out of the project,
... probably by pure luck but it appears J.C. may have got it right ...

Five-year delay would spell end of ITER

"The multibillion-euro ITER facility is now being built in St-Paul-lez-Durance, southern France. But after eight years, it has become complex and unwieldy. Following an extensive design review in 2009, ITER’s projected costs trebled to around €15 billion (US$20 billion), and construction delays — as well as unforeseeable events such as the 2011 Japanese earthquake, which damaged component-testing facilities — have meant that the research programme is now likely to be pared back."

Link: http://www.nature.com/news/five-year-delay-would-spell-end-of-iter-1.15621
 
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