Is my company allowed to do this?

[topoon]

I work(ed) for a courier company until yesterday. We had previously used walki talkie type phones which we received text messages with all the information for each call. We were charged 70 per month to use these walkie talkies. 3 months ago the company switched from telus to rogers and my company gave us these new HTC touch phones which are connected to the net 24/7, and allow us to make phone calls to clients and to our office. We signed one sheet of paper that simply stated if we lose or damage the phones we will be responsible to replace them..ie $350. We still pay $70 per month to use the new phones.

Apparently my company is on a horrible plan with rogers and over the last three months these phones have racked up bills in the $500-$3000 range because of phone and internet network usage. 3 days ago my company sent out a text informing us that we are not supposed to use the phones for anything non work related and that if we do we will be charged for it.

Yesterday they broke the news to each courier of how much they owe for the last 3-4 months and that they would be deducting this from their paychecks $150-$200 a paycheck until its payed off. Apparently I owe $700, but some guys owe $2000-$3000. Immigrants with 3-4 kids to support. Merry F*cken Christmas!

Can they just take this money from our paychecks when they never told us that we would be responsible for these charges? I mean what am I paying $70 a month for? I don't believe that they can just start making deductions from our cheques 3 days after they inform us of this new rule, and back date it 3-4 months from the day we received these phones.

I'm looking for information on who to speak with to have this cleared up. Better business bureau? Some sort of labour board? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[landscaper]

it is one of the ones lawyers get rich on, arguably the phones were provided for business use only otherwise they would have had you use your personal phone and claimed the monthly usage. If you plan on staying with the company I would just live with it and carry on. If you quit the will deduct the whole amount from you oustanding monies owed. Quiting and sueing especially a courier is problematic.

 

[Radio_Shack]

topoon, your harpooned.. Unless you want to sue them you are McFuked and evn if you want to persue in court it will take lots of time and effort and you will likely still have to pay if the charges are personal stuff..

 

[nascar2]

Your gonna have to pay !!! and "what are you going to do about it!!!!"........

 

[Cycleguy007]

Topoon... I think ur screwed! It is a company phone afterall...

 

[Stoo]

My guess is yes. If the extra costs are for personal use of the phone, then why would you be surprised at this. If they gave you a company car, and you drove it to Florida on vacation, would you expect the company to pay for your gas?

 

[topoon]

I have all sorts of issues regarding this problem. Most of the money comes from internet data usage. The phones were locked from the internet originally, but one of our managers decided to unlock the phones so we could use the internet to use google maps, find out info about our clients on the net on our own instead of bothering our dispatchers. Our phones are connected to the internet 24/7. Shouldn't this have been brought to our attention the day we received the phones? After one month had elapsed and some guys had bills for $1000, shouldn't they have told us then? Seems to me like they didn't think too much about it until the bills became so outrageous that they couldnt pay them, and then they decided to pass on the bills to us.

Its a totally different situation here with regards to the posts about company cars and phones. First of all, our phone is our lifeline when it comes to this job. Its not a perk, you need the phone to received every text or phone call from the office. The phones are connected to the internet ie. using data 24/7 but heavily during business hours. This is where the meat of the bill comes from... not the 5-10 minutes of phone calls a day i racked up.

I'm already being charged $70 per month to use the phone. This was explained in our agreement to cover the costs of their "network"

How would you feel if you were given a company car to use for work and you were allowed to take it home at night. You payed say $200 per month to the company to cover expenses. Then 4 months down the line they come to you and say "We have decided to charge you $0.10 per kilometer for the vehicle dating back to the day you recieved it and according to us, you've driven 7000 kms and you owe us $700?

 

[danmand]

I have all sorts of issues regarding this problem. Most of the money comes from internet data usage. The phones were locked from the internet originally, but one of our managers decided to unlock the phones so we could use the internet to use google maps, find out info about our clients on the net on our own instead of bothering our dispatchers. Our phones are connected to the internet 24/7. Shouldn't this have been brought to our attention the day we received the phones? After one month had elapsed and some guys had bills for $1000, shouldn't they have told us then? Seems to me like they didn't think too much about it until the bills became so outrageous that they couldnt pay them, and then they decided to pass on the bills to us.

Morally, they should have billed you promptly, or not at all. legally, it may be
a different story.

 

[toughb]

No they can not just deduct from your pay cheque. It's against the law. A debt and one's pay are to be totally separate.

That said you will have to pay sooner or later.

 

[tboy]

No they can not just deduct from your pay cheque. It's against the law. A debt and one's pay are to be totally separate.

That said you will have to pay sooner or later.

Actually, it isn't a debt per se. The drivers used company property for personal use (which in a way is theft). Whether it be photocopier paper or air time, it is still theft if the item stolen isn't returned or the company compensated for the time.

The number one issue here is: is it the company's phone? Did you use it for your own personal business? If the answer to both questions is yes, you are responsible for any and all charges.

To say 'you did not know' is just pure BULLSHIT. What did you think, the company will provide you with the means to surf the net at your leisure?

This isn't the first time employees have abused company property and it won't be the last.

YOU are responsible for the costs associated with your actions. NO ONE ELSE!

Put it another way: If you "borrowed" the company van to help your brother move, would you have to put gas in it? If the company found out a van was missing and they discovered you had it for non-business use and without permission, you could be charged with grand theft auto.

What ever happened to common sense? really......

 

[topoon]

no more tboy

tboy I'd love it if you stayed out of this because I find you to be the most annoying poster on terb....theft are you serious? I signed and agreed to 1 thing in regards to the phone. that I would be charged 70 per month to use the phone...the internet usage is because th phones are connected to a network 24 7...and the other extra usage was to find out business information ie wrong addresses, phone numbers of places of businesses..google maps...I'd love it if this didn't turn into a debate..all I'm asking is two questions...first...can they just deduct money like this from my paycheck without any pre written or verbal agreements? second..information on who to talk to ie the better business bureau or a labour board

 

[hunter001]

Call the labour board and see what they say. It would be helpful if you have copies of the documents you signed and the current billing for the phone.

 

[3Tees]

information on who to talk to ie the better business bureau or a labour board

You may also want to consider a lawyer who specializes in either labour, employment, contracts or litigation (not sure which one of these though). The Law Society of Upper Canada has a Lawyer Referral Service and it may be able to help you. Usually, consultations are free (or be sure to stipulate this to the Law Society).

 

[Manji]

Somewhat off topic but....

What's with Rogers and their crazy cell phone rates?

I have a buddy who had a phone for only for about 4 or 5 months. And the Roger's bill was around 2500....
He used that phone like an idiot but it was only talking and texting....Rogers really rapes its fucking customers (especially if they're not careful with how Rogers lays out it plans)...

Never used Rogers and from what I heard I never will use them in the future (I know there some anti-Rogers threads around here)....

 

[Bud Plug]

You may also want to consider a lawyer who specializes in either labour, employment, contracts or litigation (not sure which one of these though). The Law Society of Upper Canada has a Lawyer Referral Service and it may be able to help you. Usually, consultations are free (or be sure to stipulate this to the Law Society).

It's a $700 claim. There is no point in talking to any lawyer who actually knows anything about employment law for this kind of money.

Best advice is quit and get another job with an employer who has more reasonable working conditions.

 

[Stoo]

Topoon... I misunderstood the way you use this. As I understand the pay deduction, I think a previous poster is correct... they can't just deduct this from your paycheque.

You haven't expressly said this, but it sounds like you were/are actually an employee of this company, as opposed to being a contracted, self-employed driver? (If this was the case, your "paycheque" would be considered an account payable, and they would have an easier time deducting this charge from your cheque I suspect...)

Re-reading what you said initially, I don't know that they can make you responsible for the charges. It sounds like the beef should be with Rogers as the courier company agreed to a deal that perhaps they didn't understand.

If, as you say, the charges result from legitimate business usage, then presumably all of the drivers are in the same boat. If you all stick together on this, they might find that they are missing a fleet of drivers...

 

[tboy]

tboy I'd love it if you stayed out of this because I find you to be the most annoying poster on terb....theft are you serious? I signed and agreed to 1 thing in regards to the phone. that I would be charged 70 per month to use the phone...the internet usage is because th phones are connected to a network 24 7...and the other extra usage was to find out business information ie wrong addresses, phone numbers of places of businesses..google maps...I'd love it if this didn't turn into a debate..all I'm asking is two questions...first...can they just deduct money like this from my paycheck without any pre written or verbal agreements? second..information on who to talk to ie the better business bureau or a labour board

Sorry, you posted in an open forum and you can't chose who can respond or who can't.....so, take it or leave it or block me, it's that simple.

You admitted that the phones were provided by the company. It is naive to think that you shouldn't be using them for personal use and whether or not the company openly stated that you shouldn't, is kind of like saying to you "you can't use the company vehicles to help your brother move, go to the cottage, cruise yonge st on saturday night etc".

Yes, it IS theft if you don't repay them for YOUR personal use of company property and in this case, the property IS airtime.

Sorry if you find me annoying, I wonder if you would say the same thing if I posted what you wanted to hear? I bet not......if I said "oh you poor baby, they can't DO that to you"....you'd feel a LOT different.

Ever heard of the saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse"? Well it applies here....

You said you worked there until yesterday. Does that mean you quit yesterday? If you did I will be you your final paycheque will be minus your personal use of company phone costs......

If they don't deduct it from your cheque you can bet a bill will be coming in the mail and a subsequent lawsuit if you don't pay.

I mean really, did you honestly think that you could use company property for your own purposes and not have to pay for it? Did you really think that they'd just cover your airtime and surfing?

BTW: I doubt they were "connected" 24/7. They probably only actually connect to the network when you're loading a page, actually transmitting an email, or actually sending or receiving data. If they were connected 24/7 you'd have an airtime charge of something like 604800 seconds a week.

Please refer to section 13.5, subsection b line ii of the Canadian Labour Standards act 2000 in regards to withholding or deducting from employee wages:

"(ii) because the employer had a cash shortage, lost property or had property stolen and a person other than the employee had access to the cash or property..."

here's a link to the act:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_00e41_e.htm#BK14

Now you could argue that cellular airtime is not real "property" but does have a value and an associated cost.

 

[keeferz]

As I understand it, other than statutory deductions, such as tax, cpp etc, the company can only deduct the things that you agreed to in writing.

 

[tboy]

As I understand it, other than statutory deductions, such as tax, cpp etc, the company can only deduct the things that you agreed to in writing.

Sorry, go check on the standards act. If you "take" something, they can deduct the value of that item......

 

[topoon]

alright tboy you made your point

I almost always find your examples to be annoying but here's something that will hit home for you since your self employed...we are considered contract drivers..ie self employed...the only thing I've ever agreed to is the pay rate, my gas bonus, and the cost to use the phone which was 36 dollars per paycheck...the ONLY thing iver ever signed while working there for 2 years is the one paragraph page that says I am responsible to replace the phone if I lose it or break it....now tboy without being a smartass...tell me how that effects your opinion ie that we are self employed contract drivers and not company employees?