Is music finite?

[Mr.Know-It-All]

Music is nothing more than a combination of noises put together in an array that sounds pleasant to humans, and usually fits a certain structure (e.g. 4/4 time signature, chrous/verse/bridge).

If another planet exists like Earth, and it's populated with humans (that evolved organically; not imported from Earth), and assuming they've come as far as developing recording technology (the evolution of music that we have is in large part because of recorded music that artists are inspired by and build from), would they have music similar to ours? Is the 12-bar blues a facet of the human spirit that would be stumbled upon and replicated in that other Earth? Would they have their own version of the Beatles - the faces, voices, and melodies slightly different, yet their songs eerily more similar than different to our Beatles?

Machines can now create hit songs because there are algorithms for that have identified underlying similarities (e.g. notes/patterns) that run throughout many such songs.

How much of music is acquired taste? Is it even possible that humans could enjoy screeching sounds on that other Earth? Seems improbable, but so does this entire post.

 

[Jasmina]

Machines may be able to create trendy hooks but they still cannot stand up to absolute classics. Music has existed as long as we have had fire. There is a reason for that, I imagine.

 

[anon1]

A Philistine's argument.

 

[curr3n_c1000]

Short answer, no music is not finite. At least not until you start to put limitations and boundaries on it.

 

[fall]

Short answer, no music is not finite. At least not until you start to put limitations and boundaries on it.

Actually, it is finite. The energy (and, hence, frequencies) has quantum, and, while it is still not known if the time has quantum, the universe lifespan is finite. But I am sure the topic-starter had some different definition of "finite".

 

[anon1]

Infinite monkey theorem in popular culture - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[curr3n_c1000]

Actually, it is finite. The energy (and, hence, frequencies) has quantum, and, while it is still not known if the time has quantum, the universe lifespan is finite. But I am sure the topic-starter had some different definition of "finite".

Sound frequencies are limited, but the combination of notes and sound can be endless.

 

[oil&gas]

Tonal music was finite to the ears of
Arnold Schoenberg and his followers.

 

[wigglee]

Tonal music was finite to the ears of
Arnold Schoenberg and his followers.

Music has developed by listening to other music, so it is influenced by what goes before. If you have a completely isolated parallel development on another planet, the music would probably be totally different. Different scales, harmonies, microtones , rhythms, instruments, etc...... but it would be interesting to see if there were some basic similarities involved. Look at religions.... they developed simultaneously in isolation ( in many cases, like primitive tribes), but still had some striking similarities.

 

[TeeJay]

If life exists on another planet it seems very unlikely that it would be human like

To OP I will also point out recording technology is the downfall of the music industry
(in terms of creativity not some RIAA argument about musicians starving in the streets)

 

[Insidious Von]

Tonal music was finite to the ears of Arnold Schoenberg and his followers.

Musical genres have lifespans. Today's youth don't know what rock is. Classical music had run it's course post WW II.

 

[wigglee]

To OP I will also point out recording technology is the downfall of the music industry
(in terms of creativity not some RIAA argument about musicians starving in the streets)

why do you say that? Now everyone of us has a studio on their computer ( if they want one) .

 

[fall]

Sound frequencies are limited, but the combination of notes and sound can be endless.

Nope, they cannot be. Given quantum frequencies and amplitudes, the upper limit on amplitude by the total energy of universe, and the finite time limited by the time the universe will exist, we have a combination of finite number of elements into a limited size sequence, hence, it is finite. The only way for it to be infinite is for the time to be infinite of for the frequency or amplitude continuous.

 

[Insidious Von]

Nope, they cannot be. Given quantum frequencies and amplitudes, the upper limit on amplitude by the total energy of universe, and the finite time limited by the time the universe will exist, we have a combination of finite number of elements into a limited size sequence, hence, it is finite. The only way for it to be infinite is for the time to be infinite of for the frequency or amplitude continuous.

Bravo fall, Stephen Hawking couldn't have said it better himself. Most certainly I couldn't.

 

[TeeJay]

why do you say that? Now everyone of us has a studio on their computer ( if they want one) .

It is the death of creativity
Nothing more than mass produced bullshit
Majority of them do not even know how to play an instrument and need 10 takes to sing a verse which is then auto tuned and spliced together

Check out the massive quality difference in many live shows (assuming whoever you watch is not lip syncing even)

 

[lessjamie7]

Nope, they cannot be. Given quantum frequencies and amplitudes, the upper limit on amplitude by the total energy of universe, and the finite time limited by the time the universe will exist, we have a combination of finite number of elements into a limited size sequence, hence, it is finite. The only way for it to be infinite is for the time to be infinite of for the frequency or amplitude continuous.

Actually, there is no such thing as time, we just ponder things we will never understand and give them names, however our perception of it? that perception is where the flaw is.

Our certainties about everything are assumptions. The more we think we are learning the more we realize we don't know.

Every generation claims their certainties and the subsequent generation proves them wrong and it will never end until we do.

LJ

 

[curr3n_c1000]

Nope, they cannot be. Given quantum frequencies and amplitudes, the upper limit on amplitude by the total energy of universe, and the finite time limited by the time the universe will exist, we have a combination of finite number of elements into a limited size sequence, hence, it is finite. The only way for it to be infinite is for the time to be infinite of for the frequency or amplitude continuous.

You're saying time isn't infinite, but what if infinite is time?

If something is beyond measure can it still not exist?

It's beyond you and I.

 

[Valcazar]

Machines may be able to create trendy hooks but they still cannot stand up to absolute classics. Music has existed as long as we have had fire. There is a reason for that, I imagine.

Bonus points for throwing bardcore in there.

 

[malata]

if music is nothing more then sound, we take reference point from the first sound of THE 'big bang', from there on it be infinite of sound of endless chaos

 

[Mr.Know-It-All]

Music has developed by listening to other music, so it is influenced by what goes before. If you have a completely isolated parallel development on another planet, the music would probably be totally different. Different scales, harmonies, microtones , rhythms, instruments, etc...... but it would be interesting to see if there were some basic similarities involved. Look at religions.... they developed simultaneously in isolation ( in many cases, like primitive tribes), but still had some striking similarities.

Exactly. Different religions yet they overlap astonishingly well. Typically one God or Gods and they're given human-like features and they're creators and masters of the things around us. So regardless of where humans are found, we're bound to find their music overlap almost identically to our own if given enough time for their musical recordings to evolve. Music is just another function of the brain, an expressive feature of the human brain that enjoys certain notes and patterns.

It just seems to me that after ~100 years of recorded music, we've run the gamut and are out of ideas. There are no new music genres... hip-hop and EDM were the last musical developments and no new musical direction has been seen since... and both are now decades old. Why? Because we're bound to a limited array of notes that we find pleasing to our ears.

My guess is that our music is only "unique" insofar as the time and place in which it occurred. The when and where is happenstance, but on a statistical basis, humans on another planet are bound to cross the same musical threshold as us eventually. Their Beatles might not arrive in their 1960s but thousands of years earlier or later depending on how much focus is given to advancing their planet's recorded music catalogue.

On our own Earth, at any given time, there are people who can sing just as well as, and sound almost identical to the greatest singers of our past. They might not have access to recording technology, or might not have ever tried to sing, or might not be interested in singing, yet that latent ability is there. It's always present on Earth... just as you have doppelgangers on Earth at all times, the same goes for vocal chords. Ditto for musicians... there is another person who can play guitar like Eddie Van Halen out there right now but his hands have never touched a guitar. For that matter, there is another person with the skillset of Beethoven out there somewhere. But over millennia, through the eclipse of time, these things would coalesce and those other humans on that other planet would have comparative music to our own. It's inescapable. We are not special nor is our musical heritage. We're just doing what humans are destined to do.