All the automakers are backing off the EV train or abandoning it altogether. Musk has lost huge on Tesla after Hertz quit using them. All the automakers are walking back their committments and timelines to be fully EV. The writings on the wall. Is there any way for EV to survive ?
Is EV dead?
- Thread starter dirtydaveiii
- Start date
Ev is dead for the traditional auto makers because they can't figure out a way to make it profitable. They lose thousands on every EV car sold. So they are stuck making ICE vehicles to offset their EV losses. Tesla in the other hand is laughing all the way to the bank. With the highest profit margins per vehicle sold. So no EV is not dead. It's just dead to those that can't make money off of them
I think it is in large part due to the availability of charging stations. Tesla has by far the largest charging network and only recently have automakers adopted the Tesla charging standard. Once all the charging stations and EVs implement a single charging standard then EVs sales will pick up again. With a common charging standard any EV can use any charging station so even without new charging stations being built the amount of available charging stations to the consumer will probably double.
More compatible charging stations would mean that range anxiety will be reduced and cheaper EVs with smaller batteries will become common place.
It will probably not be until 2025 EVs models arrive that the whole charging compatibility thing be addressed.
There are other things around charging like being able to feed the power from your EV back into the grid or home, that is supposed to happen in the 2025 time frame with new home charging standards and hardware.
2024 and probably 2025 will be a shit show for non-Tesla EVs, but after that, I expect EV adoption to be exponential.
More compatible charging stations would mean that range anxiety will be reduced and cheaper EVs with smaller batteries will become common place.
It will probably not be until 2025 EVs models arrive that the whole charging compatibility thing be addressed.
There are other things around charging like being able to feed the power from your EV back into the grid or home, that is supposed to happen in the 2025 time frame with new home charging standards and hardware.
2024 and probably 2025 will be a shit show for non-Tesla EVs, but after that, I expect EV adoption to be exponential.
Share price has nothing to do with Tesla's cash flow and profit margin on cars sold. They are swimming in cash.
The problem is the funding isn't there especially during a recession. When money was flying out like a fire hose these projects were feasible but now the Fed turned the tap off its down to a slow trickle
The issues are plenty- not near enough mileage on a charge, the time and convenience of charging but most of all the cost of ownership might actually be more than a gas powered car. Hydrogen could much more easily be assimilated into gas stations at less cost and people are more comfortable with what to do. The only ev people are new age Gen xers who have to have the latest gadgets. I haven't looked at market demand and sales but the stock markets don't think they turned out as they thought and I think after the utterly idiot things musk did to twiter that everyone is questioning his ability as a CEO
I looked it up and Tesla is 15th worldwide which is impressive but I think the stock correction was a lot to do with Tesla just being a car company while musk was claiming to make it a lot more
To the best of my knowledge when automobiles were
introduced the first gas stations were financed by
private business. EV manufacturers unlike Ford and
GM in their heyday are money losers and
will remain so into the future. Building infrastructures
like charging stations will just be
another money losing venture. As such it will have to
be financed with public money. EV ownership
will be affordable only to a fraction of the population.
Very unlikely the government will ever find sufficient
support to subsidy EV charging stations on the highways.
introduced the first gas stations were financed by
private business. EV manufacturers unlike Ford and
GM in their heyday are money losers and
will remain so into the future. Building infrastructures
like charging stations will just be
another money losing venture. As such it will have to
be financed with public money. EV ownership
will be affordable only to a fraction of the population.
Very unlikely the government will ever find sufficient
support to subsidy EV charging stations on the highways.
I think there will be consolidation in the auto sector. I can't see the big 3 competing with Tesla. They will consolidate or die. Same for the European companies.
I think Toyota is the most interesting of all. Their technology may end up being the future of cars.
I think Toyota is the most interesting of all. Their technology may end up being the future of cars.
Toyota is nearing the capability to mass-produce solid-state batteries for electric vehicles (EVs) at a pace comparable to conventional batteries, with potential production starting by 2027 or 2028.
The automaker recently announced a breakthrough that could halve the cost and size of these batteries, potentially doubling the range of EVs up to 1,200 km with a 10-minute or less charging time.
Toyota’s collaboration with Idemitsu, a major Japanese oil company, is crucial in its efforts to catch up with competitors like Tesla and Ford in the EV market.
Solid-state batteries offer enhanced safety and stability over liquid electrolyte lithium-ion batteries and are seen as crucial for mass commercialization of EVs.
Solid-state batteries would show up first in phones and laptops as they are higher value products relative to the amount of energy capacity required. An iphone has about a 15 watthour battery, a Tesla model has about a 50000 watthour battery, the difference is more than 3000x.
Right now there are no phones or laptops with solid state batteries.
The Toyota claim is puzzling. Most of the electric vehicles that Motor Week have tested consume about 40kwh per 100 miles.Even if we assume 30 kwh, for 800 miles is 240kwh to be replaced in 10 minutes means 1440KW, or 2400 amps at 600 volts.
No, it is in the early stages of development. Just like the Dot Com boom and bust, people thought the internet was a flop when investors suffered great losses. It was at its genesis as is the development of the electric car. Where companies like Tesla and Hyundai have rushed in and did all the research and development, companies like Honda and Toyota have conservatively stepped back to let other companies show them what works and what does not. Toyota have been criticized for falling behind in the EV revolution, but have they. Japanese companies have always been conservative in their product developments. While other companies were first to use turbo charges and CVT transmissions, the Japanese companies only adopted them only after they have been proven successful. Not only does the electric car have to be proven reliable and a better alternative to the internal combustion engine car it has to be proven to be cost effective and affordable. The moto of the late Ichiro Honda was "Evolution not revelation".
Hopefully it's not a disaster like CVT. Electric cars are now proven to have extremely high maintenance costs with engine replacements costing North of 20k the range is nowhere near what it should be and companies like Hertz are pulling out because the costs don't make sense. Hydrogen busses have been in use om the west coast for decades so the technology is there for large commercial vehicles. EV transports seem a long way off and now with virtually all automakers that were converting from ICE to EV in the next decade are pulling back and rethinking their commitments. There are a lot of reasons why gasoline is not sustainable,.but that does not necessarily make EV the top choice.
On the matter of CVT ( transmission ) most problems have been sorted out and the vast majority of cars sold today have CVTs. On the matter of EVs vs, ICE cars there are a lot of ingredients in the stew. There is the politicians that want to please the uninformed tree hugger. For example : Biden shutting down the XL pipeline. America needs strategic oil in case of a world emergency. Like WWIII. The government wants all cars to be EVs, but the public is not able to adapt as quickly as the government expects them to. The car manufactures are obligated to meet C A F E standards. ( Combined Average Fleet Economy ) The easiest way to do that is to sell EVs to bring their score down so that they do not get fined.
Toyota has figured out that the public will not be quick to adapt to electric vehicles and that there will not be enough ( cheap ) lithium around to supply all the needs for EVs. Toyota sells plug in hybrid cars that are ICE engine but also have an electric motor for round trips of under 100 kms. The car is also able to take you 500kms. by using the ICE engine. The EV change over is being pushed too fast in a world where an economic slow down looms.
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Toyota has figured out that the public will not be quick to adapt to electric vehicles and that there will not be enough ( cheap ) lithium around to supply all the needs for EVs. Toyota sells plug in hybrid cars that are ICE engine but also have an electric motor for round trips of under 100 kms. The car is also able to take you 500kms. by using the ICE engine. The EV change over is being pushed too fast in a world where an economic slow down looms.
Just Stop Oil activists block traffic on London's Park Lane
Traffic was held up when protesters cycled slowly down Park Lane in London to demand an end to fossil fuels. Just Stop Oil activists have been marching six d...
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