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Immediate western intervention required in Egypt!!!!!

rhuarc29

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Well, we might as well solve their crises since we seem to be incapable of solving our own.
 

K Douglas

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Room 112

Twister

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The military in Egypt will end up like the Turkish generals court martialed , its a question of time . I don't know what the above link is, its in arab or whatever...
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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The entire middle east from top to bottom is a giant cluster fuck.

They will drag down the entire planet.
 

Aardvark154

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The military in Egypt will end up like the Turkish generals court martialed
Huh, since the days of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk the military (in particular the Army) have been the guarantors of the secular Turkish Republic.
 

Aardvark154

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Seth, since my Arabic is to put in mildly at a first grade level, mind giving us the Cliff notes version?
 

seth gecko

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Seth, since my Arabic is to put in mildly at a first grade level, mind giving us the Cliff notes version?
I'm glad someone finally asked.
Some folks are organizing a march to the Presidential Palace to demand the right to continue to drink beer. Drinkin' brewskis is an inalienable human right, dammit!!!!!!
My post in only partly in jest (as probably is the planned protest) but any reaction to the march could be a bit of an indicator of what type of policies Mursi plans to pursue.
As a show of solidarity for the Egyptian people, I'm heading out now with a buddy and we'll be drinking as many beers as we can. Its the least we can do...........
 

fuji

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If the Egyptians want to ban beer, segregate beaches, and require women to wear modest clothing in public--let them. Democracy is a good thing. They absolutely will not do with their democracy what we would do with ours. They might even do a few things that later on they will regret--name a democracy that hasn't. Please don't tell me that as we grew up as nations Canada and the United States always managed to extend full human rights to everybody. We failed. They will fail. We grew up, and so eventually will they.

The important thing is to reinforce their commitment to democracy, whatever it is the choose to do with it. Certainly we can criticize the shitty things they may sometimes do, but that's secondary. We have to support their democracy in a primary way.

Externally, that may mean they go around and antagonize Israel for awhile. They may even go around antagonizing us for awhile. Thing is, their leaders really will represent the Arab people, and any conversation with them will be an honest conversation about the actual issues Arab people care about. No doubt they care about stuff we'd rather they didn't care about, but that's life. All Middle Eastern policy up until now has involved "smoothing over" the concerns of Arab peoples--offering them money, deals, status in exchange for shutting them up. We never really did deal with their issues. We only ever bought off their illegitimate leaders.

I'm pretty sure that honest conversation will be a difficult one, that it won't go smoothly, that they'll demand a bunch of stuff we won't want to give them, and that it'll go back and forth for maybe even 20 years while we try and talk sense to them and they try and talk sense to us. At the end of that process, though, whatever it is, should be a REAL understanding, and a peace based on mutual respect, and everybody actually having their central issues addressed.
 

Twister

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Huh, since the days of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk the military (in particular the Army) have been the guarantors of the secular Turkish Republic.
No longer..most of the generals have been arrested. Google it.
More secular then saudis, but Turkey has more journalists in jail then Iran. You also can't get Youtube in Turkey. Etc Etc
 

rld

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No longer..most of the generals have been arrested. Google it.
More secular then saudis, but Turkey has more journalists in jail then Iran. You also can't get Youtube in Turkey. Etc Etc
How about you give us a couple of links instead of telling us to go fishing?
 

Aardvark154

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If the Egyptians want to ban beer, segregate beaches, and require women to wear modest clothing in public--let them. Democracy is a good thing.
The problem Fuji is that some of what they may wish to do is decidedly undemocratic - suppression of Women and Copts. I don't believe that can be swept under the rug as merely being their way not our way.
 

Aardvark154

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Twister, I believe you overstretch the effect of these arrests.

While I agree that neither Prime Minister Erdogan, nor the Justice and Development Party are good developments for Turkey, I don't believe the central position of the Turkish Military has changed.
 

fuji

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Aardvark154 said:
The problem Fuji is that some of what they may wish to do is decidedly undemocratic - suppression of Women and Copts. I don't believe that can be swept under the rug as merely being their way not our way.
Slavery was undemocratic. The US went on eventually to full democracy. Egyptian democracy is unlikely to emerge from the sea as a beautiful, perfect goddess. It will be flawed. If it remains democratic at heart it will eventually self correct, the same way every other democracy did.

By all means we should be critical of their miss steps, but a higher priority its to support and strengthen their democracy. As such the world should rally behind the authority of their elected president over his undemocratic foes, even if we don't like him and he goes out of his way to piss us off. The long run is more important.
 

Twister

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Twister, I believe you overstretch the effect of these arrests.

While I agree that neither Prime Minister Erdogan, nor the Justice and Development Party are good developments for Turkey, I don't believe the central position of the Turkish Military has changed.
I surely hope so, the Turkish military were constitutionally authorized to run the country as the guardians of Turkey's secular state, Turkey's military was constitutionally empowered to overthrow democratically elected governments . Now, Turkey is a populist, authoritarian, Islamic state. Turkey's judiciary and civil service are controlled by Islamists. The AKP is filling the military's officer corps with its loyalists.
 

seth gecko

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Nov 2, 2003
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The "Beer is our Right" demonstrators marched to the Presidential Palace without a hitch yesterday. So thats a good sign.
Taking a slightly more ominous tone, Jihadist websites are chattering about the victories of the MB in Egypts' parliamentary & Presidential elections. It is demonstrative (to them, at least) of Allahs power, and the rightousness of their cause. If Mursi doesn't live up to the expectations of the Islamists (who largely are responsible for putting him where he currently is), my money says it'll get violent pretty quickly (at which point the army asserts its power in order to restore security...........they turfed their boy Mubarak and wouldn't bat at eye at doing the same to this dude)
 
Ashley Madison
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