IMHO the US is losing even more credibility

[*d*]

The white house passed a bill yesterday authorizing the first installment of $2 billion to the African AIDS fund. They also expect to give only $2 billion again next year.
www.forbes.com/personalfinance/retirement/newswire/2003/07/24/rtr1037446.html
That means the bulk of the $15 billion promised by Bush must come in the last 3 years of his 5 year plan. That doesn't make much sense as a means to handle a medical emergency. To save the most lives, most of the funding should be up front and than taper off if the problem subsides. Unless of course the full $15 billion is not in the cards and the white house is not really serious in its fight against AIDS in Africa.
There is also the problem of the high cost of patented AIDS/HIV drugs offered by the major American pharmaceutical companies. Patented drugs for AIDS therapy can cost up to $10000/person per year. At those prices it would cost close to $20 billion per year to treat 2 million people in South Africa. That's 10 times the cost of the entire fund. Now $2 billion could treat 2 million AIDS victims(even though there are over 4 million new HIV cases in South Africa each year) if generic equivalent drugs could be used. These drugs cost over 10 times less the cost of patented drugs. But only 2 or 3 African countries are allowed to sale generic drugs. So one tends to think -is the Bush's African AIDS fund a fight against AIDS in Africa or a way to fund American pharmaceutical companies?

d

 

[onthebottom]

So how is it

That the US provides billions in aid (what is Canada's AIDS contribution?) and the drugs to treat the disease and we are criticized.

It does not surprise me that the 15B is not straight lined, there may be infrastructure to establish, and the administration is surly waiting for the economy to recover to minimize the impact on the deficit. This is also a PR campaign to shame Europe and other rich countries into attacking the problem as well. It's a significant amount of money to commit to a region that has no real strategic importance to the US. I think Bush is doing this simply because it's the right thing to do. Not much of a Sub-Sahara contingent in domestic or world politics to benefit his re-election campaign.

And besides, what aid organization ever thought it was over funded?

And d, you’re normally such a strong defender of US policy LOL.

OTB

 

[submissivedave]

There is no such thing as a free lunch ...

Do you think the Marshall Plan was the "right thing to do"? Or was it for America's best interest to do it?

I definitely think *d* has raised some very good points in regards to Bush's intentions.

 

[onthebottom]

I think

The Marshal plan was the right thing to do. It was obviously in the US's interest to have a prosperous Europe, if for no other reason than to stabilize the region. The acid test SD would be to ask a German or Frenchman that was alive at the time what they thought of the Marshal plan.

OTB

 

[HornyTime]

Here's information on what countries have contributed and pledged (It is an excel file).

http://www.globalfundatm.org/files/pledges&contributions.xls

So Summary (in USD)
Canada
Pledged: $ 100 Mil
Period: 2002-2005
Submitted: $ 50 Mil
GDP(2002) $ 716 Bil
Pledge/ GDP 0.014%

USA
Pledged: $ 1 625 Mil
Period: 2001-2008
Submitted: $ 623 Mil
GDP(2002) $10 417 Bil
Pledge/GDP 0.016%

GDP data from here:
http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP.pdf

Canada can't criticize the US; we contribute less of our share.

 

[DenWa]

So we've authorized $2 Billion already, we're giving another $2 Billion next year, and $11 Billion more in the following three years? And you have a fucking problem with this? Jesus Christ, man...the U.S. can never win in your book *d. Maybe it's because you're a hateful Butthole. You continue to astound me. And of course SubDave is yapping at your feet. You are so full of hate towards the U.S., and single out the bad things we've done, as if we're the only country that has ever done anything wrong. I wonder what your motivation is, because I refuse to believe that you're just simply a jerk.

DW

 

[HowardHughes]

I think the Marshall Plan was good for Europe - if you want to take a look at their other option, the Soviet suggestion would make you shudder.

Part of my studies had me interviewing former members of the 12th SS Hitlerjugend Division. At the time in 1945 - they were 14-17 years of age, and doing everything from commanding a squadron of tanks (from Czech Skodas to Tigers), to digging anti-tank defences. To hear them talk about what they thought of the American versus the Soviets - they were basically grateful - not only on the basis that the Americans were not as savage as the Soviets, but also that occupation under the Americans was just fine by them.

 

[*d*]

OTB
Can't be sure of HornyTime's numbers but the Canadian government claims to be topping up the global AIDS fund by $100 millionUS to total $270 million from Canada over the next 5 years.
www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/cida_ind.nsf/0/6e87022e8a7921e085256a8d0057e13e?OpenDocument
The EU has pledging approx. the same amount as the US this year and even a bit more than the US in 2004. And I must point out that much of that money won't be coming back into the EU as it will be coming back into the US as revenue to American pharmaceutical companies. In fact much of the entire global AIDS fund from all contributing countries will be going to major American drug companies, unless of course African countries are allowed to buy generic drugs from elsewhere.

But my main point of all this is the questioning of the US's true committment towards the African AIDS problem. Bush has jumped in big-winded saying that the US will give $15billion to the African AIDS fund over the next 5 years. Sounds serious and committed. AIDS.org were told they were getting $3billion a year. Surprise! More people have to die first. And IMHO the US can't be trusted when it comes to altruism.

And DenWa -my motives are to express concern, not to express mindless patriotism like yourself.

d

 

[DenWa]

*d..anytime anyone makes any kind of a counterpoint to the things you say, you call it mindless patriotism. You fail to understand that I don't think the U.S. government, my government, is free from blame for a lot of terrible things. My point is even when the U.S. Gov does something good you spin it into something nefarious cloaked in the guise of goodwill...It gets old. So call me a blind patriot, but I'd prefer that over being a bitter broken record.

 

[*d*]

...when the U.S. Gov does something good you spin it into something nefarious cloaked in the guise of goodwill...It gets old.

It is old. The US has been spinning themselves as saints since at least WWII. Many know better.

d

 

[Goober Mcfly]

What is this? Flame-war Friday?

 

[DenWa]

Well my mom could kick your mom's ass, *d...take that.

 

[onthebottom]

So what you're really saying

OTB
Can't be sure of HornyTime's numbers but the Canadian government claims to be topping up the global AIDS fund by $100 millionUS to total $270 million from Canada over the next 5 years.

A damned small amount from the fastest growing G8 country and the only one running a surplus. Why are you so quick to point the finger and cheap.

The EU has pledging approx. the same amount as the US this year and even a bit more than the US in 2004. And I must point out that much of that money won't be coming back into the EU as it will be coming back into the US as revenue to American pharmaceutical companies. ....

So there are no European drug companies, come on. Or do they not do this type of research? Why is developing drugs to treat a disease and then sending people the money to buy them a bad thing? We're paying to cure someone else’s problem and getting criticized for it. Give me a break.

*d* you are a one sided monologue - why don't you ask why Canada never takes the lead in anything? Perhaps you could manage the North Korea situation, Iran, West Africa..... Go ahead, get off your _ss and do something. Oh yeah I forgot, it's easier to criticize from the sidelines. How brave. Perhaps you should take England’s Queen off your money and replace it with Sweden’s King, you would fit that pacifist socialist frigid model much better. Or maybe these are just the views of one little radical liberal.

OTB

 

[Honeyman]

Teaching them how to fish. If you keep handing the money away, they will never appreciate it as much as they have earned it.

 

[SDFeuerzauber]

Give African leader many billions at once and it goes to Swiss bank accounts. Smaller deposits can be watched to ensure the money gets to the people and programs intended.

D is upset the US is helping the Iraqi people but then is upset the US isn't doing enough with an initial outlay of 2B as part of 15B to help africans?

I'm one of the people that has to work to give the government money to help africans. It's enough money. We have things to do here at home, also. Think of all the billions and billions of dollars the US gives to countries around the world. It's just amazing someone can think to say it isn't enough.

How much did D give to africans?

 

[*d*]

Re: So what you're really saying

So there are no European drug companies, come on. Or do they not do this type of research? Why is developing drugs to treat a disease and then sending people the money to buy them a bad thing? We're paying to cure someone else’s problem and getting criticized for it. Give me a break.

Sure Europe has drug companies, but the AIDS drug of choice is patented by an American company. If generic drugs can't be used then the US gets all the kick back on the sale of that drug. Now how much of that $15 billion is actually leaving the country compared to EU or Canada? How much of the rest of the worlds AIDS donation will be coming back to the US as revenue?

*d* you are a one sided monologue - why don't you ask why Canada never takes the lead in anything? Perhaps you could manage the North Korea situation, Iran, West Africa..... Go ahead, get off your _ss and do something.

Actually Canada is talking with the UN on how to handle "one sided" nations that attempt to move unilaterally to "take the lead". lol

d

 

[Cardinal Fang]

As Canadians, we and our Politicians love to talk.....that's all.....just talk.

 

[Troops]

God Bless America.

 

[Wired For Sound]

*d..anytime anyone makes any kind of a counterpoint to the things you say, you call it mindless patriotism. You fail to understand that I don't think the U.S. government, my government, is free from blame for a lot of terrible things. My point is even when the U.S. Gov does something good you spin it into something nefarious cloaked in the guise of goodwill...It gets old. So call me a blind patriot, but I'd prefer that over being a bitter broken record.

He or she doesn't care, Denwa. This is a true believer you're dealing with. A self loathing creature who can't live up to his/her own standard of morality. *D* lives in the West, has a bank account, has more than he needs, and eats while millions starve to death.

 

[*d*]

He or she doesn't care, Denwa. This is a true believer you're dealing with. A self loathing creature who can't live up to his/her own standard of morality. *D* lives in the West, has a bank account, has more than he needs, and eats while millions starve to death.

"A self loathing creature.."? LOL
No, my conflict is not with myself. My conflict is with the foreign policies of those developed countries that abuse impoverished nations for profit.

d