Horwath says Dalton is creating a crisis in education

[Moviefan-2]

Speaking to the elementary teachers' conference today, NDP Leader Andrea Horwath accused the McGuinty government of "doing everything it can to create a crisis in education."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ght-duncan-slams-teacher-union-over-criticism

Yesterday, OSSTF president Ken Coran also accused McGuinty of creating a crisis.

I'm not sure how McGuinty's fight with the teachers' unions will play out, particularly with the two by-elections coming up. For example, if McGuinty does introduce legislation to freeze teachers' wages, will that become a confidence motion? And what happens if the Tories refuse to pass wage-freeze legislation unless it is amended to include all public sector employees?

I do think the next few weeks will be an interesting time for political observers.

 

[FAST]

Same old

Speaking to the elementary teachers' conference today, NDP Leader Andrea Horwath accused the McGuinty government of "doing everything it can to create a crisis in education."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ght-duncan-slams-teacher-union-over-criticism

Yesterday, OSSTF president Ken Coran also accused McGuinty of creating a crisis.

I'm not sure how McGuinty's fight with the teachers' unions will play out, particularly with the two by-elections coming up. For example, if McGuinty does introduce legislation to freeze teachers' wages, will that become a confidence motion? And what happens if the Tories refuse to pass wage-freeze legislation unless it is amended to include all public sector employees?

I do think the next few weeks will be an interesting time for political observers.

I always get a kick out of unions ALWAYS reverting to the old,..."we want more wages etc., etc, for the students and better education system".

Gets tiresome after a while.

And although I am a Conservative, its pisses me of when they vote politically, instead of for the good of the province.

FAST

 

[cye]

Dalton created a monster.

 

[basketcase]

And he's already pissed off the Doctors. I could see Hudak voting against it even if he'd legislate something similar.

As for fast, this conflict seems to be about cuts, not raises.


I was also talking to a teacher about the whole sick day payout. (Ignoring that dirty kids put teachers at risk of illness more than many professions) I think that this sick day payout and bankable sick days make sense. When I'm sick, I either work from home or catch up later. It costs my company nothing. For teachers, the boards need to pay a supply teacher which is something like $300 per day. The bankability and cash-out are intended to reduce the supply teacher cost by giving incentives for teachers to not use sick days. If the contract gives them $46,000 for 200 sick days vs. 200x$300=$60,000, it seems to make sense. Maybe the payout could be lessened and maybe supply teacher pay could be reduced (for what is often just glorified baby sitting) but 10 non-bankable sick days will mean that each year, each teacher will likely cost the boards $3,000 in supply teacher costs.

 

[nottyboi]

The reality is, there is no other way to create meaningful change in a democracy without a crisis. you ninnys getting all worried about pissing off the teachers and doctors are the reason why this province is flat broke.

 

[FAST]

Still same old

As for fast, this conflict seems to be about cuts, not raises.

They will still apply them same line of BS

giving incentives for teachers to not use sick days.

Why should this be even necessary,...in actuality,...it was just one of many underhanded ways unions use to increase income!!

FAST

 

[buckwheat1]

It's going to be interesting, some boards have already filed for concillation which means they want a lock out

 

[FAST]

Tactics

It's going to be interesting, some boards have already filed for concillation which means they want a lock out

Just to make them look better in the publics eye !!

FAST

 

[basketcase]

...

Why should this be even necessary,...in actuality,...it was just one of many underhanded ways unions use to increase income!!

FAST

As I said, it saves the boards (and the province) money to do this.

 

[shrek71]

The education system could be fixed for the better in short order by creating a voucher system. The provincial money would go to the students directly and used at any school of their choosing. This would force the schools (public and private) to compete for the students. Capitalism at work here and the net results would be drastic reduction in education costs and vast improvement in education quality.

The public sector unions are bleeding us dry. It's a money pump. The unions collect dues from their members, which in turn donate it to political parties, which then get paid back in the form form high wages, pensions and benefits and this repeats year after year with no end in site.

Cheers

 

[rld]

The education system could be fixed for the better in short order by creating a voucher system. The provincial money would go to the students directly and used at any school of their choosing. This would force the schools (public and private) to compete for the students. Capitalism at work here and the net results would be drastic reduction in education costs and vast improvement in education quality.

The public sector unions are bleeding us dry. It's a money pump. The unions collect dues from their members, which in turn donate it to political parties, which then get paid back in the form form high wages, pensions and benefits and this repeats year after year with no end in site.

Cheers

Do you really think it is a good idea to privatize the educational system that way? Have you thought it through?

Questions like on what grounds will schools compete for students comes to mind. Questions about construction, location and transportation will also require a little thought.

And who will be making the profit from all those vouchers?

This just smacks of another, let's help the rich and screw the poor scam.

 

[FAST]

At the trough

As I said, it saves the boards (and the province) money to do this.

And as I said, that is NOT what was behind the creation of banking sick days, it was just another money grab.

I did some resaerch on "supply" teachers rate, $240/day,...funny enough,...includes 4% VACATION PAY,...thats just hilarious.

FAST

 

[rld]

And as I said, that is NOT what was behind the creation of banking sick days, it was just another money grab.

I did some resaerch on "supply" teachers rate, $240/day,...funny enough,...includes 4% VACATION PAY,...thats just hilarious.

FAST

Why is that hilarious? 4% vacation pay is stat. mandated.

And I am curious, when you are negotiating with your employer or your sources of income, do you try to get more or less?

 

[FAST]

Slurp slurp

Why is that hilarious? 4% vacation pay is stat. mandated.

You know, teachers,...summer off.

And I am curious, when you are negotiating with your employer or your sources of income, do you try to get more or less?

For once we agree,...just another money grab.

Plus, the teachers unions were pretty much given blank cheques by the school boards when this was slipped in, which is why we are in this predicament that even the Libs understand CAN‘T go on for ever.

FAST

 

[shrek71]

Do you really think it is a good idea to privatize the educational system that way? Have you thought it through?

Questions like on what grounds will schools compete for students comes to mind. Questions about construction, location and transportation will also require a little thought.

And who will be making the profit from all those vouchers?

This just smacks of another, let's help the rich and screw the poor scam.

I said nothing about privatizing education. I said to give the publicly funded education money to the end user and not the government run education monopoly. If people have choice of where to spend their education dollars, then the providers of said education will have to compete with one another. This competition is good for the education consumer as it lowers costs and improves the overall quality product.

As for location and transportation, that wouldn't change that much. Kids are bused to schools in many school boards. If in a given area shcools A,B,C are all about the same distance from a given house and were all the same price for education and had the same quality, but say school B included bus transportation at no extra cost. Then they would have a competitive advantage over schools A and C.

As for profit from these vouchers, this could be envisioned two ways. If the cost of the tuition at a given school is less than the voucher amount, then the end user of the voucher keeps the "profit". If the tuition amount is equal to the voucher (most likely scenario) then there would be incentive for the schools who get the voucher from the student to keep costs low and then any excess money left over would be invested in improving the quality of the product. It's really no different than how an actual business operates in the real world.

I fail to see how this would help the rich and screw the poor. I can't think of a fairer way to improve the overall cost and quality of education. The only ones that are going to moan over this are the teacher's unions and the established education monopoly. Under a competitive system, teachers would actually have to, you know, be good at teaching and perhaps the worst teachers could more easily be fired for incompetence or poor performance. Much like how it works in the real corporate world.

Cheers

 

[train]

And he's already pissed off the Doctors. I could see Hudak voting against it even if he'd legislate something similar.

As for fast, this conflict seems to be about cuts, not raises.


I was also talking to a teacher about the whole sick day payout. (Ignoring that dirty kids put teachers at risk of illness more than many professions) I think that this sick day payout and bankable sick days make sense. When I'm sick, I either work from home or catch up later. It costs my company nothing. For teachers, the boards need to pay a supply teacher which is something like $300 per day. The bankability and cash-out are intended to reduce the supply teacher cost by giving incentives for teachers to not use sick days. If the contract gives them $46,000 for 200 sick days vs. 200x$300=$60,000, it seems to make sense. Maybe the payout could be lessened and maybe supply teacher pay could be reduced (for what is often just glorified baby sitting) but 10 non-bankable sick days will mean that each year, each teacher will likely cost the boards $3,000 in supply teacher costs.

You are missing the point. Sick days stopped being sick days a long time ago. If you are are really sick , no problem , take a paid sick day . But banking them and getting paid a lump sum when you leave is just repugnant to say nothing of the fact that the number of days they get annually is over twice what the average person is sick.

 

[omegaphallic]

The reality is, there is no other way to create meaningful change in a democracy without a crisis. you ninnys getting all worried about pissing off the teachers and doctors are the reason why this province is flat broke.

Tax cuts for corporations and the rich is the reason the province is broke, tax havens another reason, bad trade treaties which have hurt the manufacturing sector another, dutch disease another, privatization like Orgne another, the global finicial sector scandals another, the wealth gap another. The right both locally and globally have fucked over this province, shit down the throats of ordinary people, and then blamed them for it. It's not the fault of the rich, its the fault of teachers. Bullshit.

 

[msog87]

Speaking to the elementary teachers' conference today, NDP Leader Andrea Horwath accused the McGuinty government of "doing everything it can to create a crisis in education."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ght-duncan-slams-teacher-union-over-criticism

Yesterday, OSSTF president Ken Coran also accused McGuinty of creating a crisis.

I'm not sure how McGuinty's fight with the teachers' unions will play out, particularly with the two by-elections coming up. For example, if McGuinty does introduce legislation to freeze teachers' wages, will that become a confidence motion? And what happens if the Tories refuse to pass wage-freeze legislation unless it is amended to include all public sector employees?

I do think the next few weeks will be an interesting time for political observers.

mcguinty is all talk, I have a feeling though if they do pass legislation the teachers will win in court when they fight it

 

[basketcase]

...
I did some resaerch on "supply" teachers rate, $240/day,...funny enough,...includes 4% VACATION PAY,...thats just hilarious.

FAST

As far as I can tell, supply teachers are piece work so they only get paid for days they work. The summers of is a red herring.

 

[rld]

You know, teachers,...summer off.





For once we agree,...just another money grab.

Plus, the teachers unions were pretty much given blank cheques by the school boards when this was slipped in, which is why we are in this predicament that even the Libs understand CAN‘T go on for ever.

FAST

Teachers pay, in many boards is pro-rated and modified to cover the summer off period. So are there LTD benefits etc.

I don't think in a capitalist society, where one of the goals is to make as much money as we can, we can criticize teachers or unions for seeking out more pay for their members, that is their raison d'etre. We can ask if what they are paid is reasonable for what we get back but beyond that we sound silly.