Harper's ideas rejected by Texas conservatives

Cobster

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Harper is such an asshole.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/10/17/texas-conservatives-rejec_n_1016705.html


Conservatives in the United States' toughest crime-fighting jurisdiction — Texas — say the Harper government's crime strategy won't work.

"You will spend billions and billions and billions on locking people up," says Judge John Creuzot of the Dallas County Court. "And there will come a point in time where the public says, 'Enough!' And you'll wind up letting them out."

Adds Representative Jerry Madden, a conservative Republican who heads the Texas House Committee on Corrections, "It's a very expensive thing to build new prisons and, if you build 'em, I guarantee you they will come. They'll be filled, OK? Because people will send them there.

"But, if you don't build 'em, they will come up with very creative things to do that keep the community safe and yet still do the incarceration necessary."

These comments are in line with a coalition of experts in Washington, D.C., who attacked the Harper government's omnibus crime package, Bill C-10, in a statement Monday.

"Republican governors and state legislators in such states of Texas, South Carolina, and Ohio are repealing mandatory minimum sentences, increasing opportunities for effective community supervision, and funding drug treatment because they know it will improve public safety and reduce taxpayer costs," said Tracy Velázquez, executive director of the Washington-based Justice Policy Institute.

"If passed, C-10 will take Canadian justice policies 180 degrees in the wrong direction, and Canadian citizens will bear the costs."
 

avxl1003

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A brilliant article.

Good on Texas for joining us in the 21st century.. Shame on Harper for sending us back to the 19th.
 

onthebottom

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Actually the most rich-wing state in the US from a sentencing perspective is the Democratic liberal bastion of California... 3 strikes and you're out.... damn fascists

OTB
 

fmahovalich

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Aug 21, 2009
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Before we get too up in arms slamming Harper...we are a long way from Texas Conservatism!!!


Now lets discuss facts....

8% of Criminal charges laid ACTUALLY GO TO trial.

The remaining 92% are dealt away in plea bargains...and for the most part some sort of non custodial sentence is imposed.

Canada is EXTREMELY COMPASSIONATE to criminals....sadly!
 

djk

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Actually the most rich-wing state in the US from a sentencing perspective is the Democratic liberal bastion of California... 3 strikes and you're out.... damn fascists

OTB
Well said. They need to drop that stupidity, too.
 

blackrock13

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Before we get too up in arms slamming Harper...we are a long way from Texas Conservatism!!!


Now lets discuss facts....

8% of Criminal charges laid ACTUALLY GO TO trial.

The remaining 92% are dealt away in plea bargains...and for the most part some sort of non custodial sentence is imposed.

Canada is EXTREMELY COMPASSIONATE to criminals....sadly!
We could also be smart as well. The statistics show that incarceration cost more and isn't a cure, but Harper and company know more about what's good for us than people that actually work the industries of corrections, policing, and criminal justice and won't care about the facts.
 

avxl1003

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You know what, I'm all for harsher penalties, but for the actual criminals.

I think pedophiles should rarely be released back into society (if ever), as I'm pretty sure pedophiles are second only to drunk drivers for "re-offending". Who cares about rehabilitating these freaks.. They don't belong in a civil society.

I think anybody caught with a concealed weapon (or illegal weapon) should be put in jail for a minimum of 10 years.

I think anybody caught actually firing that concealed or illegal weapon should be put away for 25 years (regardless of if they actually hit or kill somebody).

However, I think it's retarded that while the rest of the world is admitting defeat in the "war on drugs", Harper and his Neocons are instituting mandatory minimum sentences for the cultivation of cannabis... And harsher sentences for possession of these drugs.. I think it's beyond retarded that they were trying to shut down safe injection sites that have been proven to be more useful than enforcement at reducing the number of drug users, drug related crime, and drug related deaths.
 

train

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Well one supposes that Texas needs fewer prisons if they just keep frying them.
 

slowpoke

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According to the legal scholars who commented on Canada's Supreme Court ruling on the Insite case, parts of Harper's tough on crime legislation may eventually be found to be unconstitutional. That CSC ruling apparently set a precedent concerning the abitrary and disproportionate application of punitive ideology when scientific evidence shows that less draconian alternatives are more effective. If some of Harper's tough on crime provisions are challenged in our highest court, the scientific data being collected in places like Texas may force Harper to backtrack. I just hope he hasn't already built those new prisons by the time this sorts itself out. I'm sure we could make Canadians a lot safer if we spent some of that prison money on treatment and prevention but Harper doesn't want to know about scientific fact or saving money. He just wants to talk tough about crime while he wastes our tax dollars.
 

train

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Did anyone say Texas was collecting scientific data? I must have missed that. It sounded in the original post as if the Texas discussion was focused soley on cost effectiveness. Not that I'm against being cost effective. And I am very much against for putting anyone in prison for marijuana. The Conservatives are just plain wrong on that count. BTW doesn't Texas also have some significant penalties for that? Selling more than 5 lbs can get you more prison time than second degree murder here.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4566
 

fuji

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Good to see Republicans getting back to their true conservative roots. When they leave the wacko religious right ideology behind and focus on the fiscal issues they tend to do intelligent things. Hopefully we will see more of that.
 

jwmorrice

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Jun 30, 2003
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In the laboratory.
Harper is such an asshole.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/10/17/texas-conservatives-rejec_n_1016705.html


Conservatives in the United States' toughest crime-fighting jurisdiction — Texas — say the Harper government's crime strategy won't work.

"You will spend billions and billions and billions on locking people up," says Judge John Creuzot of the Dallas County Court. "And there will come a point in time where the public says, 'Enough!' And you'll wind up letting them out."

Adds Representative Jerry Madden, a conservative Republican who heads the Texas House Committee on Corrections, "It's a very expensive thing to build new prisons and, if you build 'em, I guarantee you they will come. They'll be filled, OK? Because people will send them there.

"But, if you don't build 'em, they will come up with very creative things to do that keep the community safe and yet still do the incarceration necessary."

These comments are in line with a coalition of experts in Washington, D.C., who attacked the Harper government's omnibus crime package, Bill C-10, in a statement Monday.

"Republican governors and state legislators in such states of Texas, South Carolina, and Ohio are repealing mandatory minimum sentences, increasing opportunities for effective community supervision, and funding drug treatment because they know it will improve public safety and reduce taxpayer costs," said Tracy Velázquez, executive director of the Washington-based Justice Policy Institute.

"If passed, C-10 will take Canadian justice policies 180 degrees in the wrong direction, and Canadian citizens will bear the costs."
As if there weren't positions between the inadequate punishments meted out in Canada and those overly harsh punishments meted out in the U.S.

jwm
 

groggy

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Did anyone say Texas was collecting scientific data? I must have missed that. It sounded in the original post as if the Texas discussion was focused soley on cost effectiveness. Not that I'm against being cost effective. And I am very much against for putting anyone in prison for marijuana. The Conservatives are just plain wrong on that count. BTW doesn't Texas also have some significant penalties for that? Selling more than 5 lbs can get you more prison time than second degree murder here.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4566
Will that change now with the two new Harper appointed judges?
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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Well one supposes that Texas needs fewer prisons if they just keep frying them.
Yes. Before we applaud Texas, don't forget that they have the death penalty, and I still believe that it may scare criminals from committing murder (and keep those prisoner #s down).
 

blackrock13

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Yes. Before we applaud Texas, don't forget that they have the death penalty, and I still believe that it may scare criminals from committing murder (and keep those prisoner #s down).
Well the facts say different just like they did the last three times this point was argued.
 

slowpoke

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Did anyone say Texas was collecting scientific data? I must have missed that. It sounded in the original post as if the Texas discussion was focused soley on cost effectiveness...
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4566
...."But for three decades, as crime rates fell all over the U.S., the rate in Texas fell at only half the national average."...

...."It was kinda silly, what we were doing," says Madden. Then, he discovered that drug treatment wasn't just cheaper — it cut crime much more effectively than prison."...

The above quotes are clearly about crime rates as well as reduced costs. While the article didn't specifically say that "Texas keeps detailed records about crime rates, about those they send to prison and about those they send for treatment etc", the quoted officials are clearly referring to those kinds of metrics when they claim that prison doesn't work as well as the alternatives they talked about. Every jurisdiction in the civilized western world collects and maintains those kinds of records about crime, imprisonment etc. Those records become scientific data once you compile and analyse them.
 

avxl1003

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