Harper was right but it won't matter

[train]

As the Conservative lead dwindles to nothing due to the world financial crisis Canada posted job gains for September in the monthly employment statistics. From a report today published by the National Bank:

Any good news out there?
Canada created 106,900 jobs in September. That’s right, the Canadian jobs market rebounded strongly in September,
adding 106,900 jobs after adding 15,200 the previous month. The economy created 10,600 full-time jobs a second
consecutive increase for this group. Part-time jobs experienced a large surge, up 96,600 jobs in September. Today’s
employment report was more positive than anyone expected. September experienced the largest one-month increase
ever seen in Canadian employment due to a surge in part-time employment. Nevertheless full-time jobs rose, adding to
the total employment generated since the beginning of the year +62,700.

Canadian employment experienced its largest onemonth
increase ever in September

To date there have been no Canadian banks that have needed propping-up ( there may be soon if this continues on much longer) although I understand the Government is prepared to make 25 billion available if required.

Despite this the Conservative lead is dropping like a stone largely because they are being tarred with the brush of George Bush. Does anyone seriously think that Dion has the slightest clue and that his carbon tax economics is a good fit in this environment?

Hold onto your hats folks, or your balls, I think the voters are talking themselves into jumping off the cliff in this country.

 

[sailorsix]

I love how the free market conservatives now want the governments to prop things up. Free market rules only apply when teh market is good.

A good depression will be a good enema for society.

 

[train]

I love how the free market conservatives now want the governments to prop things up. Free market rules only apply when teh market is good.

A good depression will be a good enema for society.

Good luck to you

 

[great bear]

Train, hang in there. Harper will be re-elected, but with another minority.

 

[slowpoke]

As the Conservative lead dwindles to nothing due to the world financial crisis Canada posted job gains for September in the monthly employment statistics. From a report today published by the National Bank:



To date there have been no Canadian banks that have needed propping-up ( there may be soon if this continues on much longer) although I understand the Government is prepared to make 25 billion available if required.

Despite this the Conservative lead is dropping like a stone largely because they are being tarred with the brush of George Bush. Does anyone seriously think that Dion has the slightest clue and that his carbon tax economics is a good fit in this environment?

Hold onto your hats folks, or your balls, I think the voters are talking themselves into jumping off the cliff in this country.

Harper may have been correct but he disobeyed the rules of salesmanship. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Harper's problem is that he is too cool and remote. He looks like he'd rather be somewhere else. I think his apparent lack of concern and his message that everything was going to be fine was too much at odds with the reality of free falling markets, worldwide bank failures etc. Everywhere else on the planet, leaders are furiously wrestling with these problems and looking VERY concerned. Meanwhile Harper was giving out investment advice that turned out to be premature because the markets kept falling long after he referred to this meltdown as a buying opportunity. For a guy who is supposed to be constantly watching over his flock, he sure didn't seem to care while we were all getting fleeced.

 

[red]

Harper may have been correct but he disobeyed the rules of salesmanship. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Harper's problem is that he is too cool and remote. He looks like he'd rather be somewhere else. I think his apparent lack of concern and his message that everything was going to be fine was too much at odds with the reality of free falling markets, worldwide bank failures etc. Everywhere else on the planet, leaders are furiously wrestling with these problems and looking VERY concerned. Meanwhile Harper was giving out investment advice that turned out to be premature because the markets kept falling long after he referred to this meltdown as a buying opportunity. For a guy who is supposed to be constantly watching over his flock, he sure didn't seem to care while we were all getting fleeced.

its not an apparent lack of concern, its a lack of concern.

 

[train]

For a guy who is supposed to be constantly watching over his flock, he sure didn't seem to care while we were all getting fleeced.

And following the "sky is falling" bleating of Dion and Layton would be more comforting ? The "I feel so deeply for your loss but you'd feel so much better if you just paid a little more tax" speech is comforting ?

Geez I hope people wake-up soon.

This thing isn't over yet. It's largely a matter of confidence. While Canada is a small player in the global economy I can't think of a worse person at the helm during a financial crisis than Stephane Dion......ok I lied Layton would be worse because there is an outside chance that Dion's own party would shoot him before he did too much damage.

 

[slowpoke]

And following the "sky is falling" bleating of Dion and Layton would be more comforting ? The "I feel so deeply for your loss but you'd feel so much better if you just paid a little more tax" speech is comforting ?

Geez I hope people wake-up soon.

This thing isn't over yet. It's largely a matter of confidence. While Canada is a small player in the global economy I can't think of a worse person at the helm during a financial crisis than Stephane Dion......ok I lied Layton would be worse because there is an outside chance that Dion's own party would shoot him before he did too much damage.

I'm not defending Dion when I identify Harper's failings. If by some miracle, Dion forms a minority gov't, it will be because Harper's robotic response to this crisis left the door open. People were willing to look the other way when Harper savaged his opponents in the political arena. But you can't ask people to vote for you and then offer them nothing but a bored yawn while they're getting it up the ass. The world doesn't work that way.

 

[train]

I'm not defending Dion when I identify Harper's failings. If by some miracle, Dion forms a minority gov't, it will be because Harper's robotic response to this crisis left the door open. People were willing to look the other way when Harper savaged his opponents in the political arena. But you can't ask people to vote for you and then offer them nothing but a bored yawn while they're getting it up the ass. The world doesn't work that way.

let's just hope the voters are smarter than you are giving them credit for.

 

[emerging44]

Despite this the Conservative lead is dropping like a stone largely because they are being tarred with the brush of George Bush. Does anyone seriously think that Dion has the slightest clue and that his carbon tax economics is a good fit in this environment?

The Conservative lead is dropping because Harper is an idiot. It's really as simple as that! He has made stupid comments about "buying opportunities" when people were scared and wanted reassurance, he has lied about the cost of Afghanistan by splitting hairs, he called an election on an opportunistic whim, etc etc. He is an IDIOT and probably the worst PM we have had for a long time.

On the other hand, the worst accusation that anyone can level against Dion is that his English is poor! One thing for sure, Dion's English is way better than Harper's French. The Green Shift incentive program is OK and will benefit Canadians who decide to do something about reducing their carbon footprint.

 

[slowpoke]

let's just hope the voters are smarter than you are giving them credit for.

The political process is out of time. The 401 is already starting to fill in with people leaving town for the Thanksgiving weekend. Some will still be paying attention but nowhere near as many as before. Harper may as well be talking to an empty room so it is a bit late for him to suddenly grow a heart.

I also don't know where you find all this confidence in Harper's financial acumen. He's been spending money with the best of them - ie: $5 Billion to solve the "fiscal imbalance" - (or to buy votes in QC - except the votes got lost in the mail). He talks a good conservative line but that's about as far as it goes. And he was wrong to wait so long to intervene. This crisis has been building for quite a while so he had plenty of warning but he was in doctrine-induced denial. He's pretty much admitted that. He may still get a minority but he's shown that his judgement isn't all that special and that he lets his incrementalist tendencies get in the way of decisive action when it is called for.

Dion will probably be asking Martin what happens next but I don't have a problem with that. The Liberals have depth so I don't see Dion driving the bus all by himself.

 

[train]

Dion will probably be asking Martin what happens next but I don't have a problem with that. The Liberals have depth so I don't see Dion driving the bus all by himself.

Martin.....now there was a good minority PM ...lol. Dion's probably just dumb enough to ask him for advice. What would he ask him about ? How to survive in a party where half the members want to stab you in the back. Martin had to live with that too and he didn't survive.

I think you are fooling yourself about this supposed depth. Rae and Iggy aren't my idea of anyone I want in charge either. You had a few good people butsomehow you kicked them all to the sidelines.

Let's just hope everyone wakes up before they vote.

 

[train]

And he was wrong to wait so long to intervene. This crisis has been building for quite a while so he had plenty of warning but he was in doctrine-induced denial. .

Intervene ? What exactly do you think he's done ? He hasn't intervened yet because it's still too early. All he's said is that he would make 25 billion available if necessary. It isn't necessary yet so nothing has happened.

I don't think you understand what's going on in Canada specifically do you ?

By the way, what was Dion's answer on what should have been done a week ago.....I mean specifically tell me what Dion would have done to prop up the TSE ? Or the banks for that matter. Which bank was Dion wanting to bail out? Was it the CIBC ? How much did he want to give them ?

The truth is he had no clue what to do and was just running around saying the sky is falling and Mr Harper why aren't you saving us.

 

[slowpoke]

Intervene ? What exactly do you think he's done ? He hasn't intervened yet because it's still too early. All he's said is that he would make 25 billion available if necessary. It isn't necessary yet so nothing has happened.

I don't think you understand what's going on in Canada specifically do you ?

By the way, what was Dion's answer on what should have been done a week ago.....I mean specifically tell me what Dion would have done to prop up the TSE ? Or the banks for that matter. Which bank was Dion wanting to bail out? Was it the CIBC ? How much did he want to give them ?

The truth is he had no clue what to do and was just running around saying the sky is falling and Mr Harper why aren't you saving us.

There is a difference between making the money available "if it is needed" and buying $25B worth of mortgages from the banks to free up credit. Dion said he'd hold an economic summit within 30 days to address the crisis. He at least recognized the need to intervene while Harper was still telling everyone to "take a deep breath and think". It isn't so much that Dion didn't have answers to the crisis. The message that people will take away this Thanksgiving is that Dion wanted to do something about it when Harper clearly did not. Now Harper is doing something which is inconsistent with what he said only hours earlier.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081010.wflaherty
1010/BNStory/Front
Buying up mortgages

SHAWN MCCARTHY

Globe and Mail Update

October 10, 2008 at 10:39 AM EDT

OTTAWA — Ottawa is buying $25-billion in insured mortgage pools in an effort to boost lending by the country's banks and reduce borrowing costs for Canadians, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty announced Friday.

In a morning news conference, Mr. Flaherty said the move was necessary to confront the global credit crisis, but is not a bail out of the banks. He said the government will be purchasing “high quality assets,” not the kind of non-performing, toxic securities that the U.S. government is buying in the $700-billion (U.S.) rescue package it approved last week.

“This is going to make loans and mortgages more available and more affordable for ordinary Canadians and businesses,” Mr. Flaherty said.

With the election vote just days away, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper has been under fire from political rivals for his low-key approach to the growing financial and economic crisis.....

 

[someone]

let's just hope the voters are smarter than you are giving them credit for.

Although I generally respect your opinion, I think you are off base here. Never overestimate the intelligence of the average voter. Yes, any sensible person would realize that the current situation in the world has nothing to do with Canadian policies. Yes, anyone would half a brain would realize that given Canada has not been hit nearly as bad as other nations, it is a sign that, if anything, we have been doing something right. Yes, any rational person would see that doing something for the sake of doing something would be foolish and likely counterproductive. Yes, rationally, when it comes to the issues, Harper has done the only thing that makes any sense from a policy prospective. Nonetheless, I don’t think any of this matters in politics. The reason the liberals have done so well in Canadian politics since WW2 is that they realize the average voter is an idiot and tell them what they want to hear, regardless of the implications in the real world. Don’t forget, the average voter elected disasters like Trudeau and Bush. Need I say more to make my case that the average voter is not as smart as you hope he is?

 

[train]

There is a difference between making the money available "if it is needed" and buying $25B worth of mortgages from the banks to free up credit.

No there isn't really. The morgages are just the security to the Government for providing the liquidity.

Dion said he'd hold an economic summit within 30 days to address the crisis. He at least recognized the need to intervene while Harper was still telling everyone to "take a deep breath and think". It isn't so much that Dion didn't have answers to the crisis.

His brilliant plan is that he'd hold a summit ? Your kidding right ? A summit ? Would they serve tea ? Lord help us. You know what....you should still take a deep breath and think.

The message that people will take away this Thanksgiving is that Dion wanted to do something about it when Harper clearly did not. Now Harper is doing something which is inconsistent with what he said only hours earlier.

.....

Again "holding a summit isn't anyone idea of actually doing something other than a politician's and some of his more naive followers

 

[train]

Although I generally respect your opinion, I think you are off base here. Never overestimate the intelligence of the average voter. Yes, any sensible person would realize that the current situation in the world has nothing to do with Canadian policies. Yes, anyone would half a brain would realize that given Canada has not been hit nearly as bad as other nations, it is a sign that, if anything, we have been doing something right. Yes, any rational person would see that doing something for the sake of doing something would be foolish and likely counterproductive. Yes, rationally, when it comes to the issues, Harper has done the only thing that makes any sense from a policy prospective. Nonetheless, I don’t think any of this matters in politics. The reason the liberals have done so well in Canadian politics since WW2 is that they realize the average voter is an idiot and tell them what they want to hear, regardless of the implications in the real world. Don’t forget, the average voter elected disasters like Trudeau and Bush. Need I say more to make my case that the average voter is not as smart as you hope he is?

You may be right but one can hope can't one

 

[slowpoke]

Maybe so, but I think it has more to do with the feeble-mindedness (some say stupidity) of Canadian voters.

It is irresponsible for a leader like Dion to panic and offer to spend billions of the public's money without waiting and seeing what happens in this country (still not hard hit yet as far as the economy goes), yet Canadians seem to think that Harper is complacent as opposed to patient, and are insecure about that.

The Liberals know how to get elected (not saying they'll win) perhaps because they understand the average Canadian voter better.

My observation about people needing to believe that you honestly feel concerned about their welfare before they can buy from you (or trust you enough to support you) is straight out of "sales 101". It has nothing to do with the intelligence of Canadian voters. It is just human nature - ie: it applies to all of humankind.

Your argument conerning "the feeble-mindedness (some say stupidity) of Canadian voters" only makes sense if you can show that Canadian voters are generally more feeble minded / stupid than whatever unspecified group you're comparing us with.

 

[solitaria]

Yes, anyone would half a brain would realize...

I love how some conservatives try to be smug without even the basic fundamentals of proper grammar.

We need to get on track with government incentive/disincentive programs with regards to alternative forms of energy. Harper is an absolute disaster in terms of coming up with progressive ideas to put Canada/Canadians in a good position to come out of the recession. Harper believes in fear-based economics. Sitting on your hands and taking credit for having the best banking system in the world when you wanted deregulation is not how you lead globally much less be honest with the people. We are falling behind in comparison to Europe and even parts of South America in terms of our technologies.

 

[slowpoke]

I don't quite agree with your analogy of Sales 101.

You think it's ok to persuade a citizen to vote for a politician because the politician buys that vote with costly promises that make the public feel warm and cozy?

This is my earlier post - the one you initially responded to:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Harper may have been correct but he disobeyed the rules of salesmanship. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Harper's problem is that he is too cool and remote. He looks like he'd rather be somewhere else. I think his apparent lack of concern and his message that everything was going to be fine was too much at odds with the reality of free falling markets, worldwide bank failures etc. Everywhere else on the planet, leaders are furiously wrestling with these problems and looking VERY concerned. Meanwhile Harper was giving out investment advice that turned out to be premature because the markets kept falling long after he referred to this meltdown as a buying opportunity. For a guy who is supposed to be constantly watching over his flock, he sure didn't seem to care while we were all getting fleeced.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not looking at the content or the morality of Harper's message. I'm being critical of his robotic demeanor and "apparent lack of concern" throughout this crisis. I clearly admitted that "Harper may have been correct" but he still gave the impression that he didn't care which is bad salesmanship and just plain dumb.

It is interesting that Harper is now doing something about the crisis ($25B mortgage buyout and accelerated spending on infrastructure projects - see article below). Are you saying these measures were announced simply to "persuade a citizen to vote for a politician because the politician buys that vote with costly promises that make the public feel warm and cozy?" I didn't think so. BTW, I don't have a serious problem with Harper reversing his "hands off" stance of only a few days ago but I'd have preferred him to understand that these obvious measures would help the problem and reassure Canadians. It isn't leadership when they don't take the lead or even try to get ahead of the curve until after their political handlers take them aside and tell them to "lose the goddam theories and look busy".

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081011.wflaherty1011/BNStory/Front

KEVIN CARMICHAEL

Globe and Mail Update

October 11, 2008 at 4:03 PM EDT

WASHINGTON — Finance Minister Jim Flaherty pledged to speed up the dispersal of billions of dollars of infrastructure spending in order to boost economic growth.

“We need to get those projects expedited because they will have a beneficial effect in the economy,” Mr. Flaherty said in an interview in Washington, where he is attending weekend meetings with his international counterparts.......