Hannibal vs Scipio

[Insidious Von]

At the Battle of Zama, Hannibal had the advantage. He was fighting on home soul and he had 50 War Elephants.

However the wily Scipio, who had conducted a successful break out at the Battle of Cannae, was very resourceful. The Romans had no War Elephants but they did have a secret weapon given to Scipio by the Celts. It terrfied the elephants scattering them into all directions.

The zampogna...look familiar?

 

[Insidious Von]

Today the zampogna is central to Roman Christmas and more so Epiphany celebrations.

The bagpipes, the instrument of warriors.

 

[escortsxxx]

At the Battle of Zama, Hannibal had the advantage. He was fighting on home soul and he had 50 War Elephants.

However the wily Scipio, who had conducted a successful break out at the Battle of Cannae, was very resourceful. The Romans had no War Elephants but they did have a secret weapon given to Scipio by the Celts. It terrfied the elephants scattering them into all directions.

The zampogna...look familiar?

Fan of classical battles but Scipio real reason for victory was more than some pipes. But I who knows?

 

[Insidious Von]

The pipes got it started, elephants have poor eyesight but a keen sense of hearing and smell.

There's more to the story than just pipes. Scipio made a pact with the Spanish King of Numidia gives him an vastly improved cavalry. He also used deception to take out Hannibal's ally the African King of Numidia. The most important reform, the Romans no longer fought like a Macedonian phalanx. The legions were split into mandibles consisting of 100 men each under the control of a centurion. They became more flexible, able to respond to whatever unfolded in battle.

 

[y2kmark]

The pipes got it started, elephants have poor eyesight but a keen sense of hearing and smell.

There's more to the story than just pipes. Scipio made a pact with the Spanish King of Numidia gives him an vastly improved cavalry. He also used deception to take out Hannibal's ally the African King of Numidia. The most important reform, the Romans no longer fought like a Macedonian phalanx. The legions were split into mandibles consisting of 100 men each under the control of a centurion. They became more flexible able to respond to whatever unfolded in battle.

The Romans had the most efficient military and highly superior infrastructure. Nobody really conquered the Roman Empire, it collapsed due to corrupt and ineffective Emperors. A frequent pattern in history...

 

[Darts]

Nobody really conquered the Roman Empire, it collapsed due to corrupt and ineffective Emperors.

More specifically, the barbarians, debasing the currency, hiring mercenaries to fight in wars, using slaves instead of locals in the workforce, etc.

 

[Insidious Von]

The Romans weren't that efficient, they went through four Civil Wars. One to establish the Imperial and the other three on who should rule. The 4th permantly crippled the Western Empire leading to it's fall.

In the 4th Civil War, more Romans died at the Battle of Mursa (near Zagreb), than against any foreign foe including Hannibal.

 

[Insidious Von]

"What we do echoes in eternity"

Gladiator was fiction but the events at the start of the film were not. Emperor Marcus Aurelius would have added new territory if his health didn't fail. The Germans attacked again in the mid 3rd Century winning several battles. They met at the battle of Lake Benacus, the Romans were lead by Emperor Claudius II and his Marshall of Cavalry Aurelian. The Romans won decisively, also lifting Mainz from siege then driving the Germans out of Roman Territory.

The most under-rated Emperor...the video suggests Gerrard Butler should play him if a film were made.

 

[Insidious Von]

One of my earliest memories as a child. When the band showed up to play Christmas music.

 

[basketcase]

Despite Roman historians, the elephants were not expected to have a major impact but merely disrupt the Roman front lines so the weak Carthaginian front lines could be on better terms with the well trained Roman Hastati.

I can't remember what book I was reading but it discussed that through history, elephant's biggest value was the fear they caused in the enemy troops, not the actual damage they caused, especially as there was a significant risk of them going wild and damaging your own formations.

Scipio did two things that had a huge impact. One was that he trained his units to just get out of the way of the elephants and guide them through the lines (sort of like how many armies countered chariots). The other thing he allegedly did was get some of his own elephants to use in training so that the beasts weren't a surprise to his soldiers.

The final thing he did was use his small victories including the night attack at Utica) to give confidence to his troops and erode Hannibal's legend (especially after Italy), wear away at the best Carthaginian troops, and make the enemy soldiers lose confidence.

The elephants make a good story but really were a minor part.

 

[Darts]

Alexander the Great vs war elephants. His last battle before he died from infected wounds.

"although Alexander had more cavalry and Porus fielded 200 war elephants."

Battle of the Hydaspes | Alexander the Great, Map, Tactics, & Significance | Britannica

The Battle of the Hydaspes in 326 BCE was the last battle fought by Alexander the Great during his Asian campaign. Alexander’s army defeated the forces of the Indian king Porus. Alexander’s superior tactics, including crossing a river in pouring rain to flank his enemy, led to his victory.

www.britannica.com

 

[icespot]

The Romans weren't that efficient, they went through four Civil Wars. One to establish the Imperial and the other three on who should rule. The 4th permantly crippled the Western Empire leading to it's fall.

In the 4th Civil War, more Romans died at the Battle of Mursa (near Zagreb), than against any foreign foe including Hannibal.

Like evangelicals today, the romans saw the power of the Church and just became the wholly catholic church...with that they ruled over everything.

 

[Insidious Von]

Like evangelicals today, the romans saw the power of the Church and just became the wholly catholic church...with that they ruled over everything.

That wasn't assured, the Byzantine's destroyed Italy's economy in the 6th Century and the boot became very poor. For awhile Rome was under the thumb of the Byzantine Emperor - until this guy showed up.

 

[Insidious Von]

Like Teresa Roncon, Dido is an ageless mesmeric beauty.

The song becomes even more haunting when you look up the name. Dido is the legendary founder of Carthage. The Roman Senate had a saying, "Carthage must be destroyed".

 

[Insidious Von]

As much as Ancient Rome is admired today, they were not above ethnic cleansing, especially when threatened.

 

[malata]

the romans had elizabeth tayor. nuff said

 

[Insidious Von]

Gumba welcome back.

The Romans had a tough time getting to Lizzie, they had to go through the Greek phalanx.

Which VP do you think Robert Mugabe is?

 

[basketcase]

That wasn't assured, the Byzantine's destroyed Italy's economy in the 6th Century and the boot became very poor. For awhile Rome was under the thumb of the Byzantine Emperor - until this guy showed up.
...

Except for the periods that Italy was ruled by Goths.

BTW. I think repeated invasions by migratory tribes might have had something to do with that economy.

 

[mandrill]

Except for the periods that Italy was ruled by Goths.

BTW. I think repeated invasions by migratory tribes might have had something to do with that economy.

The Goths were overthrown by Narses the Grand Eunuch of Byzantium - one of my favourite characters in ancient history.

 

[Valcazar]

Since we are doing Rome - let's look at ruining some history.