Garbage Strike - Give Me a Break
- Thread starter Thunderballs
- Start date
Mrbig1949 said:
He's been making phone calls and sending mail to dead people for a number of years. Make you think doesn't it?
Well it's official. Miller folded like a cheap suit and gave into the unions showing his true NDP leanings. Council wasted a day debating and putting on a good show for the public trying to convince us that they have our best interests at heart and really did not like the deal. In the end they voted for it 21 - 17. Bankruptcy here we come. Does anyone else see a parallel between current day Toronto and the New York city of the 70's?
Thunderballs said:
First of all the sick days would never have been changed for existing employees because of past contracts, it was a stupid negotiating ploy ... getting that off the table for new employees a big win. Also getting a buyout option could reduce future liabilities for existing employees if they choose cash today, once they do that no future banking of sick days.
Now as for 6% wage increase ... that does suck but when you consider that Harper gave CUPE 12% earlier this year and McGuinty followed with the same, getting 6% seems to be a win.
At the end of the day, the city did ok, not great, but ok. The 6% increase is acceptable and no more sick days for new employees is good and reducing the liability exposure of existing employees by offering a buy out now will have some impact, this remains to be seen by how much. However, I was expecting the city to stop banking of sick days for existing employees going forward, but allow them to keep their banked sick days but no more adding sick days going forward, I'm pretty sure the union would have accepted this if the city insisted as many picketers were ok with this as well. The city could have done a bit better, but overall I give them a C plus grade.
Miller's biggest blunder was not managing expectations well. I would have been astounding if the city would have taken away already banked sick days as the citizens were expecting, that is in contravention of the collective agreement and there would have been a serious lawsuit. This was a public relations fiasco for him which will probably cost him the mayor's job at the next election. not that he caved in, because he didn't, he managed the process poorly.
Miller's biggest blunder was not managing expectations well. I would have been astounding if the city would have taken away already banked sick days as the citizens were expecting, that is in contravention of the collective agreement and there would have been a serious lawsuit. This was a public relations fiasco for him which will probably cost him the mayor's job at the next election. not that he caved in, because he didn't, he managed the process poorly.
A better comparison would be Windsor where they also had a strike. Toronto should have been able to do even better than Windsor as (1) they had Windsor to learn from and (2) the union members could see how long the strike lasted in Windsor with very little payoff from them. However, instead of learning from Windsor and taking actions like having contractors clear the dumps on a regular basis, Miller caved. If you are going to (1) fight a strike, (2) you find you have massive public support on your side and, (3) the city can get along without major problems during the strike, there is no excuse for caving in.sibannac said:
I think that Marcus Gee summed out the public's attitude well: http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090801.GEE1ART2232/TPStory/TPComment/
Here are Marcus Gee's poll results from the Globe in blue and some comments by me as food for thought:
58%: Are less likely to vote for the mayor - This will change, voters have short memories as proven over the years at all levels of goverment, voters can quickly be swayed, and voters vote based on what's the hot issues at the time of voting.
61%: Say the city gave up more at the table The city gave up more relative to expectations, this is where Miller screwed up. Everyone and their brother was expecting the sick bank to be abolished, including already banked days, but this unrealistic due to the current collective agreement. Miller gets and E for poorly managing expectations.
73%: Say garbage services should be privatized
Easier said than done, won't be done overnight and many legal hurdles to overcome at a great cost, ask Holyday about the Etobicoke experience. Also, just because it's privatized doesn't mean there won't be a union, there can still be a strike, the difference being the City can hire other contractors to keep collecting, but problems still will occur, don't think striking members will just sit back, they will make it very difficult for what they refer to as scabs.
58%: Are less likely to vote for the mayor - This will change, voters have short memories as proven over the years at all levels of goverment, voters can quickly be swayed, and voters vote based on what's the hot issues at the time of voting.
61%: Say the city gave up more at the table The city gave up more relative to expectations, this is where Miller screwed up. Everyone and their brother was expecting the sick bank to be abolished, including already banked days, but this unrealistic due to the current collective agreement. Miller gets and E for poorly managing expectations.
73%: Say garbage services should be privatized
Easier said than done, won't be done overnight and many legal hurdles to overcome at a great cost, ask Holyday about the Etobicoke experience. Also, just because it's privatized doesn't mean there won't be a union, there can still be a strike, the difference being the City can hire other contractors to keep collecting, but problems still will occur, don't think striking members will just sit back, they will make it very difficult for what they refer to as scabs.
Remember people it was these unions, these locals, this strike, this time. Not all union suffer from the same brian farts as these did.
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Yes but unlike the public sector, private sector employers cannot cover costs by continually rising taxes. This limits the bargaining power of their unions. Private sector unions tend to be most powerful in sectors of the economic with the least competition. Don’t forget that the teamsters gained their power back in the days when interstate trucking was regulated. Undoubtedly, private garbage collectors could be unionized but if they raised costs to high, it would invite entry by lower cost competitors.wantoplay said:This is people talking without facts. The private companies are unionized too. Think Teamsters!!!
Just look at the number of days of garbage collection Etobicoke has lost to strikes compared to the rest of Toronto over the last decade.
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