Freud or Jung?

[banshie]

I am getting tired of all the political debates here. Actually, what is tiring me is my own compulsion to get involved in them! So this thread (perhaps) is my way of distracting myself.

First of all I don't know a lot about Freud, and I am no expert on Jung. I have read quite a bit of (and around) the latter.

It seems to me that Freud was a pessimist, and did not have a good opinion of homo sapiens or the human condition. Who we are is determined (in his opinion) by what happened in childhood. Jung, on the other hand, is more interested in where we are going, i.e. what is our purpose.

Having said that, I am not intending to mimimize Freud's contribution. His concept of the unconscious set the stage for psychology in the 20th century.

Anyone care to wade in on this?

 

[wrong hole]

I think Jung could take Freud in a bare knuckle street fight

 

[banshie]

I think Jung could take Freud in a bare knuckle street fight

I think you are correct. And, I believe at times he would have liked to do that!

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Freud shouldn't have invaded Iraq.

 

[banshie]

Freud shouldn't have invaded Iraq.

I think Freud was only trying to help. If he got Sadaam on his couch, then maybe he could find out why he is such a bastard.

It seems no one is interested in this topic. Never mind! Let's just have fun with it.

 

[wrong hole]

What did you think of Freud's theory of the "Electra complex"....that women are sexually attracted to their fathers b/c as a little girl their father was the predominant male influence


...and how would Jung explain this using his theories of human psyche specifically which part of the psyche (3 part) would it fall under

 

[red]

It seems to me that Freud was a pessimist, and did not have a good opinion of homo sapiens or the human condition. Who we are is determined (in his opinion) by what happened in childhood. Jung, on the other hand, is more interested in where we are going, i.e. what is our purpose.

so what you are saying is that Bush as a Freudite, will lose the election?

 

[banshie]

In fact Jung was the one to come up withe the term "Electra complex", but you are right in that it is really a theory of Freud's. I am not too familiar with what either said about this, beyopnd the very basics. This "complex" is generally discounted these days, except by dyed-in-the-wool Freudians.

Jung felt that Freud's belief that everything comes down to sex was, in fact, Freud's primary neurosis. He was disturbed when Freud asked him to promise to make this into dogma. This was what led to Jung's split with Freud. (See "Memories, Dreams, Reflections".)

 

[banshie]

Re: Re: Freud or Jung?

so what you are saying is that Bush as a Freudite, will lose the election?

I would agree that Bush is a Freudian, but would not conclude that he will lose the election. Freud has, so far, won the day over Jung. Although much of Freud is now discounted, very little of Jung is in the mainstream.

 

[banshie]

Re: Re: Re: Freud or Jung?

I would agree that Bush is a Freudian.

I mean that only in the sense that they are (were) both pessimists. I doubt if Bush could understand Freud, and he certainly would not agree with his views. Bush is clearly unconscious of the fact that he (like all of us) operates out of the unconscious.

 

[wrong hole]

Who would be better in the sack, Freud or Jung

I figger Freud was impotent b/c all he did was dwell on sexuality it seem....which stem from his subconscious

Jung would be the Ron Jeremy of analytical thought.....hairy and course but able to finish the job

 

[banshie]

Jung certainly was full of Eros, and I would imagine enjoyed a good fuck. He had more than one long term mistress. He was open with his wife about these, and in fact insisted on having one of them come for dinner with the family! Wish I had his balls!

 

[banshie]

Wish I had his balls!

Before you accuse me of a Freudian slip, I did not say "have him by the balls"!

 

[Morgan Ellis]

What did you think of Freud's theory of the "Electra complex"

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar....

Unless you're Monika Lewinsky.


-- Morgan

 

[SNAGuy]

Dr. Phil isn't in contention?

 

[banshie]

Dr. Phil isn't in contention?

I presume you are joking? Dr. Phil is an agony aunt, like Ann Landers, not to be confused with serious psychology.

 

[wrong hole]

Dr. Phil use to peddle his ass to ex-cons.....I saw it on Jerry once

 

[jwmorrice]

....It seems to me that Freud was a pessimist, and did not have a good opinion of homo sapiens or the human condition. Who we are is determined (in his opinion) by what happened in childhood. Jung, on the other hand, is more interested in where we are going, i.e. what is our purpose...

Freud was rather pessimistic about a lot of things, e.g. therapy, America, people in general, etc. Or perhaps, just realistic?

Whatever, he kept his sense of humour. In 1939, the Germans were refusing to let him leave Vienna unless, among other things, he signed a paper saying that he had not been mistreated. Freud signed and added "I can heartily recommend the Gestapo to anyone."

jwm

 

[jwmorrice]

Originally posted by wrong hole I think Jung could take Freud in a bare knuckle street fight

Yup, Jung was a giant of a man. Well over six foot.

jwm

 

[jwmorrice]

In fact Jung was the one to come up withe the term "Electra complex", but you are right in that it is really a theory of Freud's. I am not too familiar with what either said about this, beyopnd the very basics. This "complex" is generally discounted these days, except by dyed-in-the-wool Freudians.

Jung felt that Freud's belief that everything comes down to sex was, in fact, Freud's primary neurosis. He was disturbed when Freud asked him to promise to make this into dogma. This was what led to Jung's split with Freud. (See "Memories, Dreams, Reflections".)

Freud was not a pansexualist. He didn't believe that everything came down to that instinct. He did think that much of our character is determined by relationships with our parents, i.e. the Oedipal Complex. Even that seemingly common sense idea is now under attack from certain quarters. See: http://home.att.net/~xchar/tna/

One of the interesting things about sexuality is that it's such a plastic instinct, i.e. it can be repressed and/or diverted into other channels. As such, it infiltrates many areas of our lives.

jwm