For juveniles, prison is anything but hard time (in Denmark, that is)

[danmand]

For juveniles, prison is anything but hard time
Published 11.03.11 13:00

Prison is a nice break from the daily grind for young criminals, according to new study

The results of a new study show that conditions in prison are actually better than conditions at home for many of Denmark’s youngest generation of criminals.

According to an 18-year-old named Zaid, who participated in the recent study of young criminals’ feelings about their criminal careers and incarceration, going to prison was less like getting punished than like taking a nice holiday.

“I don’t think of it like a punishment. The opposite actually – it’s more like a holiday. It is the best place to go and take a break. Right now I actually wouldn’t mind getting in and just having a rest for a month.”

Some 14 young people took part in the study conducted by associate professor Inge M. Bryderup from the Danish School of Education.

All of the participants saw many advantages to going to prison. Getting three meals a day and having their pick of cable channels on television were just two perks they mentioned enjoying in prison. But the best thing about prison, according to the young people, was that they could get some peace and quiet there.

“Presumably these are some things that have been missing in their upbringing,” said Bryderup.

The young people in the study all come from socio-economically disadvantaged families, where abuse, violence and criminality among the parents also factored. But the young people themselves could not see the connection between their upbringings and their own crimes, according to Bryderup.

“Many of their fathers have committed big crimes, and have served long prison terms, but the kids do not grasp that they have inherited the same pattern.”

That lack of self-awareness creates big problems in getting young criminals give up crime, according to Bryderup.

“They do not consider that they might be able to get help in changing their lives. They don’t think of the community as something that is there to help them.”

The Copenhagen Post

 

[alexmst]

In Toronto/GTA, from what I've read in The Star, the prison system for youth offenders is anything but a fun relaxing vacation on the inside.

 

[asterwald]

Such a shame. I bet majority of the convicts are not ethnic Danes.

 

[Aardvark154]

The Copenhagen Post

For juveniles, prison is anything but hard time (in Denmark, that is)

Prison is a nice break from the daily grind for young criminals, according to new study

Unfortunately given that what in most other countries would be considered if not treason, at least the type military law crime which would result in decades if not a lifetime of making big rocks into little rocks, are in Demark give a big yawn, learning that juvenile detention is a "country club" is not a great surprise.

 

[angrymime666]

unfortunately the canadian Y/O system also parallels Denmark. treatment is replacing punitive measures. sadly youth are given so many chances in the name of treatment, however I feel that in reality this is a set up for youth and they reoffend because they know there is no accountability for their actions. if kids/adults cant exist within the rules of our society then they shouldnt be given the privilage of being in society. there definately needs to be a change in the system.

 

[rhuarc29]

unfortunately the canadian Y/O system also parallels Denmark. treatment is replacing punitive measures. sadly youth are given so many chances in the name of treatment, however I feel that in reality this is a set up for youth and they reoffend because they know there is no accountability for their actions. if kids/adults cant exist within the rules of our society then they shouldnt be given the privilage of being in society. there definately needs to be a change in the system.

That's an interesting point of view. It seems we are moving in the wrong direction then.

In the case of Denmark, if the convicts aren't getting three meals a day at home and can't afford cable, maybe more emphasis should be put on improving the lives of Denmark's people, rather than making prison crappier.

 

[danmand]

In the case of Denmark, if the convicts aren't getting three meals a day at home and can't afford cable, maybe more emphasis should be put on improving the lives of Denmark's people, rather than making prison crappier.

The study says that the juvenile delinquents are sons of much worse fathers. The cycle has to be broken, which will not happen with tougher prisons, on the contrary, that will cement it.

 

[Mervyn]

The study says that the juvenile delinquents are sons of much worse fathers. The cycle has to be broken, which will not happen with tougher prisons, on the contrary, that will cement it.

“Many of their fathers have committed big crimes, and have served long prison terms, but the kids do not grasp that they have inherited the same pattern.”

They still don't seem to get it, even in the nicer prison...

 

[Scarey]

Norway has some nice digs too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4beUC3-ckw

 

[C Dick]

My friend's son was in Juvenile Detention here, he got stabbed. It did not sound like a fun place.

 

[oldjones]

unfortunately the canadian Y/O system also parallels Denmark. treatment is replacing punitive measures. sadly youth are given so many chances in the name of treatment, however I feel that in reality this is a set up for youth and they reoffend because they know there is no accountability for their actions. if kids/adults cant exist within the rules of our society then they shouldnt be given the privilage of being in society. there definately needs to be a change in the system.

Stupid. They are kids; punishment is no way to make anything but more damaged adults, more skilled at avoiding capture and punishment next time. Given that we can't just shoot them, the only thing taht makes any sense is to 'treat' them by teaching what their parents didn't: that being a square-john honest citizen is smarter, because it's less trouble, more profitable, way more fun than jail, and not all that hard. Just needs skills they don't have. Yet.

A more punitive approach just teaches them adults are scary, brutal and stupid, but they can learn to be even more so, now that they've lucked into this lesson plan.

 

[angrymime666]

Stupid. They are kids; punishment is no way to make anything but more damaged adults, more skilled at avoiding capture and punishment next time. Given that we can't just shoot them, the only thing taht makes any sense is to 'treat' them by teaching what their parents didn't: that being a square-john honest citizen is smarter, because it's less trouble, more profitable, way more fun than jail, and not all that hard. Just needs skills they don't have. Yet.

A more punitive approach just teaches them adults are scary, brutal and stupid, but they can learn to be even more so, now that they've lucked into this lesson plan.

go

kids are kids? perhaps 20 years ago.

unfortunately it is unlikely that that treatment will work with kids who have developed their own morals and values. if we desire change in youth it must occur in early developement. while I see treatment as a valuable tool it doesnt jive well with reality. yes kids dont have the tool/skills to manage their lives but if they cant exist within the rules that society has founded they should be incarcerated. kids are already damaged, and possibly in jail/treatment centre they may learn other counter production skills just from associating with other Y/O.

I dont see jail as punitive; however, what happens inside of jail is probably not the most theraputic milieu.

if kids cant follow the law, then by all means they need to have their freedom revolked untill they can manage to have appropriate behavior.

as for jail not being fun for kids. its actually not that bad. a warm bed 24/7. hot meals. tv/dvd players/mp3 player. school. recreation. for most of them this is probably the nicest place theyve been. so reoffending for them coming to a jail/treatment centre isnt really that much of a consequence for them considering that most of them have nothing in their lives.

does this help? Im not sure and cant provide any stats.

I do have a coworker who has collected newpaper articles of former kids through the system. it called the dead book. murders, suicides, reincarceration. all I know is that I would say that kids in the system have about a 90% chance of reoffending.

what we do now just isnt working.

 

[angrymime666]

That's an interesting point of view. It seems we are moving in the wrong direction then.

In the case of Denmark, if the convicts aren't getting three meals a day at home and can't afford cable, maybe more emphasis should be put on improving the lives of Denmark's people, rather than making prison crappier.

its all about early intervention. its so difficult to change someone who has developed their own beliefs and feel they should not have to change.

 

[oldjones]

go

kids are kids? perhaps 20 years ago.…edit…what we do now just isnt working.

So what are they now, if not kids? Millions of parents have proven that you don't have to give up on kids who do bad stuff and just lock'em away. They can be taught to be decent adults. Why ever would sensible adults like us repeat the worst of bad parenting and imagine we'd get better results than they already got. That's insanity defined.

"What we do now isn't working" and so we're building super-jail versions of it.

Madness. But then you're a guy who "…doesn't see jail as punitive". Do we assume then that the time you've spent inside hasn't corrected you? But somehow will 'fix' kids punitively?

 

[danmand]

So what are they now, if not kids? Millions of parents have proven that you don't have to give up on kids who do bad stuff and just lock'em away. They can be taught to be decent adults. Why ever would sensible adults like us repeat the worst of bad parenting and imagine we'd get better results than they already got. That's insanity defined.

"What we do now isn't working" and so we're building super-jail versions of it.

Madness. But then you're a guy who "…doesn't see jail as punitive". Do we assume then that the time you've spent inside hasn't corrected you? But somehow will 'fix' kids punitively?

The ROI of rehabilitating juvenile offenders is overwhelming. Even if society spends $1M on each, society wins.

 

[OddSox]

Is military service still compulsory in Denmark?

 

[danmand]

Is military service still compulsory in Denmark?

In priciple, not so much in practice. At 18, males are called to spand a day with the Military. About half are deemed suitable, and participate in a lottery for conscription.

 

[OddSox]

Ah, I think it used to be a minimum of two years. I was just thinking that sending the youngsters off to basic training a year or two early might not hurt...

 

[angrymime666]

So what are they now, if not kids? Millions of parents have proven that you don't have to give up on kids who do bad stuff and just lock'em away. They can be taught to be decent adults. Why ever would sensible adults like us repeat the worst of bad parenting and imagine we'd get better results than they already got. That's insanity defined.

"What we do now isn't working" and so we're building super-jail versions of it.

Madness. But then you're a guy who "…doesn't see jail as punitive". Do we assume then that the time you've spent inside hasn't corrected you? But somehow will 'fix' kids punitively?

kids today are no longer kids. various factors(tv, internet, technolgy, values) have shaped our youths in such a way that they have out grew the humble upbringing that other generations had. kids grow up so quickly due to these factors and its literally information overload on a developing mind. having millions of images that bombard kids is destructive to developement. I dont think its healthy given the amount of information are subjected to.

I dont believe on giving up when kids; but when kids endanger the safety of society, thats a problem.

oh and for the record Ive never been to jail. I work with kids in a secure treatment/custody centre

 

[oldjones]

The ROI of rehabilitating juvenile offenders is overwhelming. Even if society spends $1M on each, society wins.

Absolutely agree. Of course the best ROI—if we're trying to actually reduce crime and not just revenge ourselves on offenders—is at cost, tax-funded abortions and contraceptives for anyone who wants.

Couple that with a cheap campaign to discourage having babies you can't give the best to and crime-rates would plummet. But then a more expensive campaign to guarantee every mother and child had access to child-rearing knowledge and support, to competent, safe daycare and good schooling and after school recreation would likely not only pay for istself but turn a social profit. Which is why we'll never see it here.

More superjails; damn the cost! Anyway, we can't be forced to reveal that, because we haven't a clue what the cost will be. We just know it won't work the same as it's never worked before. But it always gets us votes.