Flying first class vs business?

[stinkynuts]

Does anybody here fly first class, especially international flights? If, so, do you feel it to be worth it, and why?

A roundtrip flight to Japan coach is: $1500, business $5000, and first is $10,000.

Since it's a long flight, I can see how it would be worth flying business: big, comfortable seats that can lie flat or nearly flat vs narrow seats that barely recline, near gourmet food vs school cafeteria food, free alcohol, priority boarding, check in, security lines, and usually a nice lounge with amenities such as food, drinks, magazines, etc.

However, why would anyone pay $5000 more for first class? What benefit does it offer, and how can one justify forking over double the amount?

Clearly, this is a case of diminishing returns. But why do people fly first? Because they can afford to? Because it's a status thing? Or because of some other benefit? Is it really that much better than business?

 

[oldjones]

Does anybody here fly first class, especially international flights? If, so, do you feel it to be worth it, and why?

A roundtrip flight to Japan coach is: $1500, business $5000, and first is $10,000.

Since it's a long flight, I can see how it would be worth flying business: big, comfortable seats that can lie flat or nearly flat vs narrow seats that barely recline, near gourmet food vs school cafeteria food, free alcohol, priority boarding, check in, security lines, and usually a nice lounge with amenities such as food, drinks, magazines, etc.

However, why would anyone pay $5000 more for first class? What benefit does it offer, and how can one justify forking over double the amount?

Clearly, this is a case of diminishing returns. But why do people fly first? Because they can afford to? Because it's a status thing? Or because of some other benefit? Is it really that much better than business?

Because they've known for a long time that they're 'first class' and never really think to consider another option? Why don't you tell us why they would think of downgrading.

What's that old saying about, 'If you have to ask, then you aren't' ?

 

[stinkynuts]

Because they've known for a long time that they're 'first class' and never really think to consider another option? Why don't you tell us why they would think of downgrading.

What's that old saying about, 'If you have to ask, then you aren't' ?

I don't know why, that's why I'm asking. No need to be condescending.

I'd like to hear from those who have experienced both first and business and offer their personal experience, and hear if it's worth it.


I suppose it's why some people pay $250,000 for a Bentley instead of $100,000 for a high end Mercedes.

 

[Ms.FemmeFatale]

Does anybody here fly first class, especially international flights? If, so, do you feel it to be worth it, and why?

A roundtrip flight to Japan coach is: $1500, business $5000, and first is $10,000.

Since it's a long flight, I can see how it would be worth flying business: big, comfortable seats that can lie flat or nearly flat vs narrow seats that barely recline, near gourmet food vs school cafeteria food, free alcohol, priority boarding, check in, security lines, and usually a nice lounge with amenities such as food, drinks, magazines, etc.

However, why would anyone pay $5000 more for first class? What benefit does it offer, and how can one justify forking over double the amount?

Clearly, this is a case of diminishing returns. But why do people fly first? Because they can afford to? Because it's a status thing? Or because of some other benefit? Is it really that much better than business?

I have done first class, I have done business class and I have done couch. For a flight over seas, I would always fly business class as a min. I have only flown first class with a points upgrade. I would never spend the actual money. It seems like such a waste to me. Then again I will never buy a new car off the lot either. I think that is a waste of money too. People do what works for them.

 

[shrek71]

Which airline are you looking with your pricing? If you are talking about Emirates airlines then there is a distinct difference in the experience between first and business class. My cousin is a pilot for Emirates airlines and my aunt an uncle have flow their first class flight from Toronto to Dubai (A380 no less) and what they report was rather awesome for what you get. Even the economy class on Emirates would be the equivalent to the business class on many other airlines.

As to the value for what you get, do also consider the whole process for the flight, from getting to the airport, to checking in, going through security, customs, to boarding, etc. With business and first class you get separate lines for all of those items and there is a tremendous time savings and for many that time has a significant value to it. Others may not see it that way, but it is also a factor.

Cheers

 

[oldjones]

I don't know why, that's why I'm asking. No need to be condescending.

I'd like to hear from those who have experienced both first and business and offer their personal experience, and hear if it's worth it.


I suppose it's why some people pay $250,000 for a Bentley instead of $100,000 for a high end Mercedes.

Sorry, but the people you're asking about—and you did ask about them—aren't making their choice on relative value and price points.

'Because they can', is another answer. Why not ask the airline (or check its website) that you got your costs from just what they cover? Then you can decide for yourself if it's worth the money.

 

[stinkynuts]

I have done first class, I have done business class and I have done couch. For a flight over seas, I would always fly business class as a min. I have only flown first class with a points upgrade. I would never spend the actual money. It seems like such a waste to me. Then again I will never buy a new car off the lot either. I think that is a waste of money too. People do what works for them.

Although I have never flown first, I think my reaction would be exactly like yours. Not worth it at all, but if it's free, why not?

I also would buy a slightly used car over new, because it saves a lot of money, and in my opinion, is the smart thing to do. I hate wasting money.

In my opinion, those that buy brand new cars, fly first class, or buy very high end cars are willing to spend that kind of money because they simply have the money. Others, however buy it to show off. And others are simply poor at making smart decisions. I know people who could afford to waste money on those things, but would prefer to invest that money, or to spend it on something more meaningful.

 

[stinkynuts]

Which airline are you looking with your pricing? If you are talking about Emirates airlines then there is a distinct difference in the experience between first and business class. My cousin is a pilot for Emirates airlines and my aunt an uncle have flow their first class flight from Toronto to Dubai (A380 no less) and what they report was rather awesome for what you get. Even the economy class on Emirates would be the equivalent to the business class on many other airlines.

As to the value for what you get, do also consider the whole process for the flight, from getting to the airport, to checking in, going through security, customs, to boarding, etc. With business and first class you get separate lines for all of those items and there is a tremendous time savings and for many that time has a significant value to it. Others may not see it that way, but it is also a factor.

Cheers

That's cool, to have a relative as a pilot for Emirates! Yes, they are the best (I saw the first class experience on YouTube. It was amazing.) But still, I don't know if I'd pay for it. Also, waiting an hour more in long immigration, security, and boarding lines is a huge pain when traveling, but not really worth paying that much for. But then again, I guess, my time isn't really worth that much.

BTW the prices were for United.

 

[bazokajoe]

I have flown first class to Honolulu from Toronto with Delta & United.

United sucks.Their first class was terrible.Pretty much econo seats covered with leather.Only reclined about 1" more than econo.No personal monitors just 1 big one for all of first class seating.Food was shit to.

Delta was so much better.Pretty much lie flat seats.Persoanal TV/movie monitors.Better food options.Travel package (slippers,toothpaste/brush)I think they called it a refreshment kit? Priority boarding.Free booze if thats your thing.

One thing I like about first/buisness class is NO SCREAMING KIDS.That alone is priceless. I have never seen special lines at security or customs for first/buisness class.As far as I seen once you get past check-in everyone is the same.

Personally,it's a finacial choice each person has to make.I sure wouldn't take first/buisness for a short flight to Vegas,Vancouver.Just not worth it.For long flights I say its worth it.

EDIT: First/buisness class also lets you check in more bags with a higher weight limit.I know everyone will say the extra cost is minimal compared to the ticket price differance.Also have more overhead storage and don't have to worry about the cheap pricks bringing on more than they should and expecting everyone else to move their bags for their convience.

 

[stinkynuts]

I have flown first class to Honolulu from Toronto with Delta & United.

United sucks.Their first class was terrible.Pretty much econo seats covered with leather.Only reclined about 1" more than econo.No personal monitors just 1 big one for all of first class seating.Food was shit to.

Delta was so much better.Pretty much lie flat seats.Persoanal TV/movie monitors.Better food options.Travel package (slippers,toothpaste/brush)I think they called it a refreshment kit? Priority boarding.Free booze if thats your thing.

One thing I like about first/buisness class is NO SCREAMING KIDS.That alone is priceless. I have never seen special lines at security or customs for first/buisness class.As far as I seen once you get past check-in everyone is the same.

Personally,it's a finacial choice each person has to make.I sure wouldn't take first/buisness for a short flight to Vegas,Vancouver.Just not worth it.For long flights I say its worth it.

EDIT: First/buisness class also lets you check in more bags with a higher weight limit.I know everyone will say the extra cost is minimal compared to the ticket price differance.Also have more overhead storage and don't have to worry about the cheap pricks bringing on more than they should and expecting everyone else to move their bags for their convience.

Wow, that is terrible first class. Would be pissed if I spent thousands on that kind of service.

 

[KBear]

For people in business, business owners, the flight ticket is a tax deduction. They might as well spend the money on business expenses and enjoy it then have the money taxed away. Same as people who lease expensive cars every 2 years, they can expense the lease costs and enjoy the ride.

It would be tough to justify the extra $8,000 cost for first class if the cost was not a tax deduction. Some people with more money than they know what to do with are the exception.

 

[wetnose]

Look if your key rainmaker is flying across the Pacific to pitch a $300 million dollar deal that will revitalize the company, you want him/her refreshed, rested and ready to ROCK.

Or he/she could have the worst flight in economy, sandwiched between 2 obese guys with bad hygiene, and 2 babies with colic. For 16 hours.

 

[SimonHunter]

Does anybody here fly first class, especially international flights? If, so, do you feel it to be worth it, and why?

A roundtrip flight to Japan coach is: $1500, business $5000, and first is $10,000.

Since it's a long flight, I can see how it would be worth flying business: big, comfortable seats that can lie flat or nearly flat vs narrow seats that barely recline, near gourmet food vs school cafeteria food, free alcohol, priority boarding, check in, security lines, and usually a nice lounge with amenities such as food, drinks, magazines, etc.

However, why would anyone pay $5000 more for first class? What benefit does it offer, and how can one justify forking over double the amount?

Clearly, this is a case of diminishing returns. But why do people fly first? Because they can afford to? Because it's a status thing? Or because of some other benefit? Is it really that much better than business?

There is no simple answer. Each airline defines First class / business class / etc in different ways.

Most North American airlines do not have a true "First Class" experience. They just charge more for a tiny bit more.

Perhaps I can best reply by providing an example on a recent Cathay Pacific flight.

Arrive at Airport. Total line up at first class was 2 people. Greeter was chatting with the people in the queue while we waited and noting our preferences. Check in was extremely polite and fast. Special security check in area (I do not think they have that in Toronto. All Canadians are tortured by the Canadian system equally). Private first class lounge. Hot meal prepared by a chef. Free wine or drinks. VERY comfortable seats. A nice lady came to tell us we should head for the plane for boarding within the next few minutes. Get to boarding gate..... The line up for boarding first class was .... well no one. Show tickets and in we go. Turn left at the plane door .

Each seat is in it's own little privacy pods. Pod walls are something like 4 feet high. All kinds of comfort and storage items in the pod. I have no idea how many movies etc were available on the TV. Lots. lol. Seat is at least 2 times larger than Air Canada ones. It is not a "near flat" bed. In reclined position it is a bit smaller than a standard twin mattress. Did I mention there is a nice soft mattress pad under you and you get to pick between a duvet and a blanket. By the time you are comfortable you are offered water or champagne or orange juice etc. All served in real glasses. The menu for the flight is offered to you so you can select your meal. Most often a choice of beef, chicken, or vegetarian are available.

I have to guess at the following numbers, because I did not physically count...... but roughly 1 attendant for every 7 or 8 people compared to 1 for 40 or 50 in economy. about the same ratio for washrooms. The is pretty much always at least one or two empty.

You get a "welcome aboard" bag. Contains things like eye masks, assorted personal items (comb, mouth wash, aromatic balms and moisturizer) slippers, blanket, pillow, and on loner flights PJs. (BA has the nicest PJs. Grey and boring looking but sooooooo soft.

One nice feature is your pod has guest seating so you can have someone join you for conversation, to share a meal, or to play chess.

Service on the flight.... comparable to any of the better restaurants in Toronto.

When you land you get out first. You move through private customs/immigrations in most cities. The First class lounges include private shower facilities and a meal.

What am I forgetting.... probably a lot. Oh huge baggage allowance. Like take a 60" TV along because the price was so great in the far east.

And you get treated like a guest, not live stock.

Why pay so much for it?

Well you arrive refreshed and ready to face the day. That can be a huge plus.

It feels good. It is a MUCH nicer experience.

Why hire an escort instead of just using your hand? Why hire an attractive pleasant escort instead of an older less attractive one????? Same logic.

In any of the top airlines, the gap between First Class and Business Class is as great as between business class and economy.

Not so much in North American airlines.

 

[Keebler Elf]

For the most part, the people who can afford first class (not business class, which is often just a business expense) fly first class because they can. They can afford it and most people can't. They don't rationalize it or think about whether they can afford it. If they had to think about it they probably couldn't afford it.

Yeah, there's millionaires who are infamously cheap but 99% of the time they do it because they can. And they ARE the first class in our society (at least in terms of wealth).

 

[stinkynuts]

There is no simple answer. Each airline defines First class / business class / etc in different ways.

Most North American airlines do not have a true "First Class" experience. They just charge more for a tiny bit more.

Perhaps I can best reply by providing an example on a recent Cathay Pacific flight.

Arrive at Airport. Total line up at first class was 2 people. Greeter was chatting with the people in the queue while we waited and noting our preferences. Check in was extremely polite and fast. Special security check in area (I do not think they have that in Toronto. All Canadians are tortured by the Canadian system equally). Private first class lounge. Hot meal prepared by a chef. Free wine or drinks. VERY comfortable seats. A nice lady came to tell us we should head for the plane for boarding within the next few minutes. Get to boarding gate..... The line up for boarding first class was .... well no one. Show tickets and in we go. Turn left at the plane door .

Each seat is in it's own little privacy pods. Pod walls are something like 4 feet high. All kinds of comfort and storage items in the pod. I have no idea how many movies etc were available on the TV. Lots. lol. Seat is at least 2 times larger than Air Canada ones. It is not a "near flat" bed. In reclined position it is a bit smaller than a standard twin mattress. Did I mention there is a nice soft mattress pad under you and you get to pick between a duvet and a blanket. By the time you are comfortable you are offered water or champagne or orange juice etc. All served in real glasses. The menu for the flight is offered to you so you can select your meal. Most often a choice of beef, chicken, or vegetarian are available.

I have to guess at the following numbers, because I did not physically count...... but roughly 1 attendant for every 7 or 8 people compared to 1 for 40 or 50 in economy. about the same ratio for washrooms. The is pretty much always at least one or two empty.

You get a "welcome aboard" bag. Contains things like eye masks, assorted personal items (comb, mouth wash, aromatic balms and moisturizer) slippers, blanket, pillow, and on loner flights PJs. (BA has the nicest PJs. Grey and boring looking but sooooooo soft.

One nice feature is your pod has guest seating so you can have someone join you for conversation, to share a meal, or to play chess.

Service on the flight.... comparable to any of the better restaurants in Toronto.

When you land you get out first. You move through private customs/immigrations in most cities. The First class lounges include private shower facilities and a meal.

What am I forgetting.... probably a lot. Oh huge baggage allowance. Like take a 60" TV along because the price was so great in the far east.

And you get treated like a guest, not live stock.

Why pay so much for it?

Well you arrive refreshed and ready to face the day. That can be a huge plus.

It feels good. It is a MUCH nicer experience.

Why hire an escort instead of just using your hand? Why hire an attractive pleasant escort instead of an older less attractive one????? Same logic.

In any of the top airlines, the gap between First Class and Business Class is as great as between business class and economy.

Not so much in North American airlines.

Wow, thanks for the detailed walkthrough. Seems like a very different first class experience bazokajoe with United.

Will try to find something on Youtube to summarize the first class experience a well...

 

[Ringworld]

I've flown a lot over the past 25 years for my job, both US and international. Generally economy for North America, and business for international as that's been the policy at every employer I've had. I've been bumped to first a couple of times.

IMO, anything beyond economy is a waste of money for flights within North America. That is, unless you have money to burn. The additional comfort is a nice perk, but it's very fleeting.

Business is a necessity for long (>8 hr) flights, or when you're crossing a number of time zones. The reason is that you're more likely to be rested when you get where you're going. Nothing like arriving in Dubai or Hong Kong at night, with a meeting first thing the next morning. You don't want to be fried from a 14 hr flight. I've done Toronto - Dubai in both business and economy class, both time a direct flight, and the difference in my performance in the first day or two after I got there was like night and day. I think that business class is also a necessity for people that travel a lot as it eases the stress of constantly being on a plane.

First class is a luxury. I've flown in on Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong to Toronto. It was very nice. The amount of personal space, and food were excellent, but I can't say that it really made much of a difference to anything.

 

[Veronica27]

AC Exec Overseas is Awesome

I used to fly AC Exec First class but have stopped due to the crap service.

AC Exec Domestic is fine, but AC Exec Overseas is Awesome! The pods are the best.

Fly off-continent 10X-20X/year last 4 years. Big difference in how you feel after a 7-16 hour flight in the back versus in the front. Super Elite status is the best. Treated like gold at AC.

 

[Ringworld]

AC Exec Domestic is fine, but AC Exec Overseas is Awesome! The pods are the best.

Fly off-continent 10X-20X/year last 4 years. Big difference in how you feel after a 7-16 hour flight in the back versus in the front. Super Elite status is the best. Treated like gold at AC.

Back in the 90's to early 00's, I did the Toronto - Frankfurt run a lot in AC Exec First. I agree, it was very good, especially on the top deck of the B747 Combi.

 

[stinkynuts]

I've flown a lot over the past 25 years for my job, both US and international. Generally economy for North America, and business for international as that's been the policy at every employer I've had. I've been bumped to first a couple of times.

IMO, anything beyond economy is a waste of money for flights within North America. That is, unless you have money to burn. The additional comfort is a nice perk, but it's very fleeting.

Business is a necessity for long (>8 hr) flights, or when you're crossing a number of time zones. The reason is that you're more likely to be rested when you get where you're going. Nothing like arriving in Dubai or Hong Kong at night, with a meeting first thing the next morning. You don't want to be fried from a 14 hr flight. I've done Toronto - Dubai in both business and economy class, both time a direct flight, and the difference in my performance in the first day or two after I got there was like night and day. I think that business class is also a necessity for people that travel a lot as it eases the stress of constantly being on a plane.

First class is a luxury. I've flown in on Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong to Toronto. It was very nice. The amount of personal space, and food were excellent, but I can't say that it really made much of a difference to anything.

Thanks for sharing, I guess the consensus is:

*For long, international flights, the upgrade from economy to business is worth it because of the betters seats, food, and service. You arrive fresh and relaxed after being pampered, vs stressed, tired, and irritated from being cramped and treated like cattle.

*For short, domestic flights, it's not really worth the extra money

*Upgrading from business to first is nice, but not worth it, unless you are flying an airline such as Emirates and have money to burn

*Airlines differ greatly in quality and experience

*The rich don't need to think about what they're getting, and whether it's worth it or not. They simply can afford the very best and think they deserve it. Unlike me, they are not weighing costs/benefits.

 

[SimonHunter]

I've flown a lot over the past 25 years for my job, both US and international. Generally economy for North America, and business for international as that's been the policy at every employer I've had. I've been bumped to first a couple of times.

IMO, anything beyond economy is a waste of money for flights within North America. That is, unless you have money to burn. The additional comfort is a nice perk, but it's very fleeting.

Business is a necessity for long (>8 hr) flights, or when you're crossing a number of time zones. The reason is that you're more likely to be rested when you get where you're going. Nothing like arriving in Dubai or Hong Kong at night, with a meeting first thing the next morning. You don't want to be fried from a 14 hr flight. I've done Toronto - Dubai in both business and economy class, both time a direct flight, and the difference in my performance in the first day or two after I got there was like night and day. I think that business class is also a necessity for people that travel a lot as it eases the stress of constantly being on a plane.

First class is a luxury. I've flown in on Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong to Toronto. It was very nice. The amount of personal space, and food were excellent, but I can't say that it really made much of a difference to anything.

My mentor back in the 70s told me once that all things are relative. He said take the cost of something, divide it by the consumers disposable income, and you can compare it roughly between 2 people.

So for a guy earning $100,000 a year, taking home after taxes etc $50,000, an extra $5,000 is about 10% of his yearly spend

Another guy is netting $500,000 it is about 1% of his yearly spend. Sort of like the first guy being asked if he would take First Class to Hong Kong for $500?


Once you wrap that around your head around relative value, it gets simple to understand choices.

Personally I agree, economy is fine for North American short flights. Above that business is a good value. And anything over 10 hrs, First class is of significant benefit.