Flu Shots at Private Clinic

[train]

I am a customer of Medcan. A downtown Toronto clinic. We use the clinic for annual executive physicals. In the past they have proven to be excellent at early warning diagnosis ranging from heart murmurs to thyroid issues with our employees. In addition you get quick referrals to specialists. You can also pay for a range of services from a colonoscopies to a dieticians etc.

I had the seasonal flu 3 times last winter and was planning on getting a flu shot this year for the first time and the H1N1 shot when my doctor had it. My wife is getting cancer treatments and it is irresponsible of me to risk getting her sick when her immune system is compromised.

I received an e-mail on Friday from MedCan saying that they had the H1N1vaccine if I was in one of the risk groups - which they listed. I replied that I was and they phoned and set up an appointment for Saturday.

I arrived 15 minutes early and within 5 minutes had both flu shots and was sitting in their lounge with a coffee waiting the requisite 20 minutes before leaving to ensure I wasn't going to have a reaction.

1. They were very very thorough in checking to ensure that a potential recipient was actually in one of the priority groups before giving you the H1N1 shot. This was easy in my case since they already had my medical file;

2. I saw them turning people away who were not priorities;

3. Approximately 80% of the people there were children who appeared to be 6 and under. They were obviously not clinic members but perhaps relatives of members although I heard later it was, in fact open to the public;

4. The efficiency of the operation was something to watch as it was very busy for the short time I was there;

5 While I was there I got both flu shots.

Talking to the Doctor, she stated that the media generated panic was really non-productive and actually created a hazard. The last thing you should have is high risk people forced together in a crowd.The Province really screwed up by not releasing the available doses to all doctors and clinics so that there was no great line-up in any one place.

The difference between something organized by the Province/City and something organized by professionals is obviously night and day.

At the end of the day a lot of young kids and high risk patients got innoculated in an efficient safe clean environment with little waiting.

 

[moresex4me]

What was the cost for this? Or did OHIP cover it? Thanks.

 

[train]

What was the cost for this? Or did OHIP cover it? Thanks.

I believe it was covered by OHIP as I did not have to sign a credit card slip. As I said it was open to the public. I believe my annual fees entitled me to individual notification and the ability to reserve an appointment time.

 

[Anynym]

Talking to the Doctor, she stated that the media generated panic was really non-productive and actually created a hazard. The last thing you should have is high risk people forced together in a crowd.The Province really screwed up by not releasing the available doses to all doctors and clinics so that there was no great line-up in any one place.

She should have also explained to you that the vaccine in Canada is distributed in 500-dose vials, and must be mixed and then used within 24 hours of mixing.

There are very few doctors offices which are capable of using the vaccine in the volumes necessary to prevent waste.

Yes, the Province messed up in managing the administration of the vaccine, but the aspect you cite isn't one they could have reasonably chosen. Never mind that one of the problems is how long it takes per person to deliver the vaccine, because of the conversations people are having in advance of receiving the shot and the length of time to serve each person as a result.

The Province should have organized the lineups better: validate your OHIP card (i.e. that the person in line is the person whose card it is), swipe it to add it to a database, and tell you what time to come back (in 15-minute increments). If you have any questions, you're given a timeslot to meet with a nurse who can answer most questions. You're requested to have the forms filled in when you return for your flu shot.

You come back, swipe your card to confirm your time window, and get your shot. If you miss your window by too much, you're assigned a new timeslot. Much less standing around waiting.

 

[fuji]

There are very few doctors offices which are capable of using the vaccine in the volumes necessary to prevent waste.

However there are very, very many doctors offices. Consider only the GTA: There are 4000 family doctors. If each office innoculated just 10 people per day, over a two week period they would collectively innoculate 400,000 people.

That is way, way more innoculations than what the public clinics will achieve, and 10/day, given they can be done by a nurse, is not a lot to ask of them.

As to the mixing problem that can be centrally managed:

Ship it only to clinics where there are five or more doctors working (i.e., high patient volume), and have the doses mixed centrally so that they are delivered just what they would use over a 24 hour period.

My doctor works at a busy clinic with 5 other doctors and there are a lot of patients through there every day. They have requested vaccine but have not received any yet.

 

[LateComer]

What was the cost for this? Or did OHIP cover it? Thanks.

$2300 for new patients:

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...can_clinic_091030/20091030?hub=TorontoNewHome

 

[cc12rye]

It would be one thing if medcan bought the vaccine from GSK. But they were given it from Toronto Public Health. From the comments of this article

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ts-jump-the-line-for-flu-shot/article1347746/

"I am a family physician at a clinic with over 20 family docs who see people from all walks of life. We applied for the right to distribute the H1N1 vaccine as soon as it was possible to do so, met the requirements, and were informed we were to get 5000 doses. We got 500 last week. We have no membership fee, have a large number of patients that are in the high-priority groups, and treat everyone regardless of income or ability. This discrepancy makes no sense, and I certainly hope there will be a rigourous review of policy...and soon."

 

[Rockslinger]

Was watching CTV and a caller made the point that the private clinic diverted a bunch of people from the public queue thus reducing the waiting time there.

 

[cc12rye]

Good point. I guess if those 3000 doses went to a public clinic that didn't get any or ran out, they would have pour them in the toilet. That way no kids or high risk patients would benefit and no people would be diverted from the other public queues.

 

[pc0mo]

i got my h1n1 shot from my family doctor on Saturday . i'm considered high risk due to respiratory problems but they called me up and administered the shot and i was in and out of there with in 30 mins .

 

[Lochlan651]

Good point. I guess if those 3000 doses went to a public clinic that didn't get any or ran out, they would have pour them in the toilet. That way no kids or high risk patients would benefit and no people would be diverted from the other public queues.

Think you are missing the point.

The lineups and wait times are not because of a shortage. Its because they are too incompetent to administer the doses any faster. That is the bottleneck.

Having 3000 doses go elsewhere, means 3000 more people in the city got their shots.

So the choice is waiting in a line with 3000 more people, and having less of a chance of being one of the few who get a shot on a given day, or have 3000 less people in the line.

I am glad there is someone else besides Toronto Public Health giving out the shots, because they are obviously terrible.

That being said, my family and I got our shots this morning. Our Doctor's Office called Friday and booked us in for an appointment. We waited 20 mins in the waiting room, and were gone.

Priority because we have a 2yr old, and are pregnant.

 

[fuji]

So the choice is waiting in a line with 3000 more people, and having less of a chance of being one of the few who get a shot on a given day, or have 3000 less people in the line.

That isn't the real choice though.

There were 500 doctors offices in the GTA that requested vaccine and only 110 received it. The other 4/5ths are currently going without it, their patients not being served, and so on.

Why provide so many doses to a private clinic, when none whatsoever are provided to OHIP insured clinics?

I think there are some reasonable questions to ask there about the misallocation of vaccine between the private clinic, and public doctors offices.

Taxpayers paid for the vaccine, it is not clear at all to me why it should be given to a private clinic at all, and certainly not ahead of regular doctors offices that are available to the taxpayers who paid for the vaccine.

It seems to me the private clinic should purchase its own vaccine, using some of the $2300 it charges to its patients.

 

[moresex4me]

That isn't the real choice though.

There were 500 doctors offices in the GTA that requested vaccine and only 110 received it. The other 4/5ths are currently going without it, their patients not being served, and so on.

Why provide so many doses to a private clinic, when none whatsoever are provided to OHIP insured clinics?

I think there are some reasonable questions to ask there about the misallocation of vaccine between the private clinic, and public doctors offices.

Taxpayers paid for the vaccine, it is not clear at all to me why it should be given to a private clinic at all, and certainly not ahead of regular doctors offices that are available to the taxpayers who paid for the vaccine.

It seems to me the private clinic should purchase its own vaccine, using some of the $2300 it charges to its patients.

Maybe the private clinic ordered directly from the manufacturer? Anyone ever think of that?

 

[Bear669]

Yes- but apparently not the case

Maybe the private clinic ordered directly from the manufacturer? Anyone ever think of that?

Private clinic MDs are quoted confirming they got it from public sources.

 

[Lochlan651]

It seems to me the private clinic should purchase its own vaccine, using some of the $2300 it charges to its patients.

Not allowed under the Canada Health Act.

They are doing all that they are allowed to do under Federal Law.

 

[train]

She should have also explained to you that the vaccine in Canada is distributed in 500-dose vials, and must be mixed and then used within 24 hours of mixing.

Surely it would not be that difficult to split deliveries if one were competently organized. I would think that if there were 100 more clinics it would be fairly easy to give 500 doses daily.

Never mind that one of the problems is how long it takes per person to deliver the vaccine, because of the conversations people are having in advance of receiving the shot and the length of time to serve each person as a result.

Didn't seem to be much an issue at MedCan. Nor is it in Sault Ste Marie where it has also been properly organized with many clinics and appointment times

 

[fuji]

I suspect some of the failure in planning has to do with the fact that TPH was out on strike when they were supposed to be planning. They've been back awhile since then, but no doubt they have other work that was backlogged as well.

As a result I suspect we have the half-assed plan that they were able to come up with, given not enough time to plan, thanks to the strike.

 

[fuji]

Not allowed under the Canada Health Act.

Can you cite the section of the Canada Health Act which prohibits purchasing approved medicines direct from a manufacturer?

That does not seem accurate to me. You may be right, but since it sounds wrong to me, I'd like your source.

For one thing, health is a Provincial jurisdiction, so the claim that it's regulated by some Federal law just sounds wrong to me from the get go. However, I don't know the answer myself.

 

[Tokyo Heights]

To Get N1H1 Vaccine Flu Shot

The question arise how many are ready to dish out $ 2300 ?
for getting NiH1 Vaccine by a private clinic? Whereas both the flu shots are
fully covered by OHIP, only people who has corporate support from their companies can dish out such kind of money to get N1H1 Vaccine Shot without waiting in line for hours.
Rather The Ministry Of Health should open up more clinics soon for everyone to go and get the N1H1 deadly flu shot asap before the winter sets in. Family Dr's Clinic should also get their share of N1H1 Vaccines, so people can go to their individaul clinics and get the flue shot without standing in-line for hour's togather in rain and windy weather what we are experiencing since last few day's, its ridiculous that the Ministry of Health has not taken things very seriously to help citizens getting N1H1 Shot without so much of inconvenience, any day the health system in U.K. is much better than in Canada.

 

[train]

That isn't the real choice though.

There were 500 doctors offices in the GTA that requested vaccine and only 110 received it. The other 4/5ths are currently going without it, their patients not being served, and so on.

Why provide so many doses to a private clinic, when none whatsoever are provided to OHIP insured clinics?

The question that should be asked is why weren't they ALL given it instead of this stupid City of Toronto scheme.

Taxpayers paid for the vaccine, it is not clear at all to me why it should be given to a private clinic at all, and certainly not ahead of regular doctors offices that are available to the taxpayers who paid for the vaccine.

The people that received the majority of the vaccine at the private clinic from what I saw were not taxpayers. Then again the majority were 6 years old or less . Their parents were taxpayers I suspect and paid for the vaccine as well. If they are clinic members do you wish for them to pay for it twice ?

While there is no reason, with the possible exception of better organization and persistence, that a private clinic should receive the vaccines first, the real point is that this is the way it should have been organized city-wide. As it was in Sault Ste Marie. If it can be done in this instance surely any Toronto clinic with a handful of doctors would also be large enough to replicate the smooth and efficient administering of doses.

Hats off to MedCan for showing the province the way

It seems to me the private clinic should purchase its own vaccine, using some of the $2300 it charges to its patients.

Why ? The clinic is paying for the facilities and the staff to organize the program and administer the doses - just this makes it more cost effective than the City programs. Their clients already pay more of the burden for health care than you.