Federal Gov't: Whites need not apply

[Joker]

Whites need not apply
By MARGARET WENTE
Globe and Mail, page A21
Thursday, May. 29, 2003

A few days ago, Marc Gage, a self-employed communications consultant, saw a job ad that caught his eye. The federal Department of Fisheries was seeking a regional communications director in Vancouver. It sounded right up his alley. The pay also wasn't bad -- up to $99,700 a year.

Mr. Gage wanted to apply, but one fatal flaw disqualified him: He's white.

The ad, which was posted on the federal government's Web site, was explicit. Under the heading "Who can apply," it said: "Persons working or residing in Canada and Canadian citizens living abroad, WHO ARE MEMBERS OF VISIBLE MINORITY GROUPS." The Employment Equity Act, it explained, defines members of visible minorities as being "persons, other than aboriginal peoples, who are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour."

Full article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPPrint/LAC/20030529/COWENT29/TPComment/

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Is this country now run by special interest groups? Is it okay to discriminate against the majority? This is outrageous.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Reverse descrimination. Happens if your male as well.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Why this is wrong, kiarra, is because favouritism is being given based on sex/skin colour. THAT, in my opinion, is against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

We've passed the Charter to level the playing field, not to skew it in the other direction. Things will even out eventually, just not quick enough for the special interest groups, which is sad.

 

[greentshirtman]

remember, racism and biggotism is alright if its against the majority,lol

 

[Mr. Downtown]

What a f'ing joke. This country is becoming more like The Netherlands every day. It shouldn't matter if you are white, black asian, native, male or female. The position should be awarded on the basis of merit and merit only.

Screw affirmative action. All it does is perpetuate discrimination.

 

[submissivedave]

Yes, for one thing, I am against affirmative action ... it really is not a good thing. Somtimes I think the biggest discriminating agent in Canada/USA or in the world even are the governments themselves.

However, the counter arguement is that if you want to recruit certain people, you just have to market a certain job in a certain way ...

Let's take a disabled person for example. If I only have one arm, it is obvious my productivity will not be any where near someone who has two arms regardless what the job requires, be it manual labor or just typing ... So from an economical perspective, your not going to hire me because I am not as efficient as the guy sitting next to me ... But yet, you as an employer believe in equality and giving everyone a fair chance, what should you do to make me compete on the same footing as a "regular dude"? I would say, to market the job focused at people like me ...

I think the race issue is similar and at the same time different. But yet, this type of policy is only trying to get minorities to be involved with the public service ...

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Kiarra: Payback is not fair game. If that were the case, let's gas all the Germans. (sorry, bad analogy)

I agree that there is racism still out there, but the younger generations are much more integrated and tolerant of other "races" etc. Some day the racist people will retire/die out and there will be equality for all (aka utopia). I don't think the government forcing it helps, it actually hinders by generating negative feelings.

 

[rayven]

I have to agree with Goober. I don't think it's fair to hold back a white person (who may be more qualified) from applying for a job, simply because, once upon a time blacks/minorities were repressed. Why do I have to pay for something that happened many years ago (and yes, I do realize that in the grand scheme of things it wasn't *that* long ago).

I think it's disgusting that it happened and although there is still far too much racism in our society I think that we have to keep in mind that reverse racism isn't okay either.

 

[Fred Zed]

I don't think the source of problem is necessarily racism but unfortunately people generally tend to hire those of their own kind.
Just look at the TTC and Fire Dept for instance.

I used to work for a major financial institution in Toronto. In one department the manager was East Indian, nearly half the staff in that department were of East indian origin. At another tech company where I worked one dept VP was oriental, nearly 70% of staff in that department were oriental.

Given a choice between a white candidate and black candidate of equal ability in all probablity a white manager will pick a white candidate and vice versa.

Unfortunately there are more white managers than there are visible minority managers - that is the source of the problem.

 

[train]

This is just my opinion, but it comes from seeing things first hand. Racism is still alive and kicking.

Kiarra [/B]

I agree that racism still exists . I have to wonder however whether this type of affirmative action really helps . Yes a minority gets a job which he or she may not have otherwise but further resentment is created in the process .

I just don't know whether this furthers the cause or sets it back .

 

[elaine]

Have you no idea what a quota is. they are not trying to be 'nice' to visible minorities, nor are they in favour of them. It's what a five percent quota for non white male workers. population base in canada is more then five percent, yet employable options run to a five percent quota. (if there was 95 percent white men workable in this country I wouldn't be single)

It is weird, to not qualify for a job when your race age or sex is involved. But you should be aware of job openings, as the white one needed to be filled at sometime too. If you look at many of the jobs at the hrdc.gc... website same job, worded differently, white employees 8-14000 a year increase in wage compared to the job posting for the visible minority one. So don't anyone worry the gov't is still favouring the good ole white folk.

I applied for a job last year, they had to make sure, I was clearly aboriginal, and under thirty, and no longer a student. At the end of the day, they didn't hire me, probably because I gave them my website as a reference. They didn't even call my 'work' references I begged those gentleman to allow me to put them down on my CV. I still felt discriminated against, as I was clearly, if not overly qualified for the position.

 

[elaine]

Kiarra "To many children are spoiled rotten with Play station and DVD players/clothes, etc. "

Lets not knock Playstation. My son has had PS one since he was one, this year a PS2. He's also three and entering Kindergarten this fall. It's not the school size chalkboard I have had in his room that has made him bright, as math/reading is memory for the most part, MGS2/spiderman2, and SOCOM are puzzles, are games that require him to do good, save the life of others while learning eight button cordnation moves. His dexterity, the eye hand cordnation has excelled him beyond my belief.

and it was cute to watch a two year old say "team go to crosshairs" the headpiece had to be taped to his head so it would stay on. lol

not knocking your comment as i agree with everything else you have been saying. I just have had positive response from video games with my child. and yes, I do let him have fun, he also has Shrek and Monsters INC. lol

 

[rayven]

I agree that parents are teaching less and less to their kids - I've seen it myself, I worked in a couple of different high schools for a few years...

However, while I believe that there is a small percentage of kids who are influenced by "music" and video games and such (and I believe that these kids are the ones who have absolutely nobody in their lives to provide guidance or discipline in any way, shape or form) I think that the far bigger percentage of kids are smart enough to know right from wrong and don't base all of their decisions on what Eminem or Snoop have told them to do. Racism included...the majority of kids are integrated and don't have any serious racial issues with one another but again, there is a small percentage who have nothing to hang on to but the beliefs of their ancestors - for whatever the reason, maybe their parents aren't present and they're being raised by grand parents who had a completely different belief system than that of the younger generation.

 

[submissivedave]

OK ... then let's flip the coin and say what if the article were to say "Minorities Need Not Apply"? Do you think there would be more outrage?

Furthermore, if you look at the government as a whole in Canada, those in power or in poistion of power or those who will have power are still White males. Look at all the Supreme Court Judges, the Ministers in the Cabinet and even people in the Privy Council, Premiers of each province ... the head decision makers are still White dudes.

The Public Service in the grand scheme of things is only "middle management" ... even if the Fed promotes people like me, who are minorities into the Civil Service, we'd still only be a middle management dude and are still excluded from the ruling class in Canada ...

As much as I dislike President Bush, I do give him props for having Powell and Rice (both Blacks) in such high positions in his Administration. Furthermore, I also agree with his stance on the issues going on at the University of Michigan.

Even though I am a minority myself, I am against affirmative action and things such as "Negro College Fund" or "Scholarship for Visible Minorities" ... how come I don't see no "Scholarhip for poor Whities"? Are they saying that all Blacks are poor and all Whites are rich enough to attend school without scholarship?

Furthermore, affirmative action and these "Scholarships" act as nothing more then positive discrimination. What? Are you saying a "Negro", "Latino" and "Oriental" is less then a White man and that's why they need that extra boost? Are you saying that Blacks, Latinos and Asians don't got the brains to get into politics so they need this shit to get them in?

For me, I rather be hired based on what I can do and my performance instead of filling in a quota man ...

At the same time, when I apply to Fed Gov't jobs, I often run into posts that say "Open to Aboriginals" ... yet, I never get pissed even though it puts me in a disadvantaged position because it is true our First Nations people were treated like shit and still are being treated like shit. In a way, its to make up for what Canada as a whole has done wrong to them.

I mean one of the reasons why many "Natives" are in shitty conditions is because they were fucked over in the first place since their great great great grand parents. I think, in a macro perspective, this holds true for the continent of Africa. How the hell is Africa ever gonna develop if all the strong able men were made into slaves and all her resources stripped?

History will always play a role ...

 

[Goober Mcfly]

For me, I rather be hired based on what I can do and my performance instead of filling in a quota man ...

Exactly. Only when we see people as people instead of white/black/purple/green/male/female will we truly prosper.

 

[xarir]

If people thought that Fred was a black man in his basement of regent park with a mouse in one hand and blunt in other, do you think he would get the numbers he does.

Fred's not a black dude living in Regent Park?!

Sorry - couldn't resist.

 

[The Fruity Hare]

At what point do the affirmative action people back off. A few years ago, there was an under-representation of females and visible minorities in the Fire Department. So, what do they do? Do they offer more training to these people to help them pass the tests? No, of course not. They lower the requirements.
Now, you are faced with a situation where someone has to do a job for which they are not qualified. This means saving lives. Who would you rather have when your life and the lives of your loved ones are in danger? The most qualified or affirmative action based?
A few years ago, a friend of mine went through his fire-fighting course, only to be told that he might as well not apply, there were hardly any positions open for white males.
I dislike racism, but racism against white men is no solution either!

 

[68.5]

passing thought

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with the pig man - and George says he'd be happy if there were pig men because then he might look like a good option for the women...but then Jerry says nawww, women seem to like people who are different. Ok that didn't have much significance to this discussion, but it was amusing nonetheless.

Anyway, I didn't notice anybody bring up the whole univeristy debacle in the states (Michigan, I believe?) where they automatically give who they deem to be minorities a "handicap" on their SAT or admission scores, thereby denying more deserving but non-minority individuals admission.


68.5

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Can you imagine the comments made then, about his fees for ads, about the way he runs his board, everything would become racial then, don't you think?

Only for closed-minded bigots.

 

[rayven]

Personally, I don't think it's a very good comparison to a job posting specifically excluding "whites"... Fred sitting at home with his mouse in one hand (who knows what else in the other )...who would really care if he was black - I can't see it hurting the site in any way - JMO