Discreet Dolls

Examiner: Terry Schiavo WAS brain dead

TOVisitor

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Cool Dude said:
PS- Terri is NOT brain dead.
From: http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/assisted_suicide

Not only that, it seems that all those wingut accusations of hubby strangling or hitting her were BS as well.


Schiavo Autopsy Shows No Sign of Trauma
AP - 10 minutes ago


LARGO, Fla. - Terri Schiavo did not suffer any trauma prior to her 1990 collapse and her brain was about half of normal size when she died, according to results released Wednesday of an autopsy conducted on the severely brain-damaged woman. Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin concluded that there was no evidence of strangulation or other trauma leading to her collapse.

from: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...86.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=2&cset=true

<snip>
She died from dehydration, Thogmartin said.

He said she would not have been able to eat or drink if she had been given food by mouth as her parents' requested.

"Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not," Thogmartin told reporters.

He also said she was blind, because the "vision centers of her brain were dead."

Viewing Videotape, Frist Disputes Fla. Doctors' Diagnosis of Schiavo
By Charles Babington
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 19, 2005

Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), a renowned heart surgeon before becoming Senate majority leader, went to the floor late Thursday night for the second time in 12 hours to argue that Florida doctors had erred in saying Terri Schiavo is in a "persistent vegetative state."

"I question it based on a review of the video footage which I spent an hour or so looking at last night in my office," he said in a lengthy speech in which he quoted medical texts and standards. "She certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli."

So, when do we hear an apology from her parents, Randall Terry, Bill Frist, Tom Delay, Sean Hannity, or Bill O'Reilly for being so utterly fucking wrong?

Probably never, because ... everybody! ... It's OK If You Are a Republican!
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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You know, I agree with you in principle about most things, but why you need to include the last line is beyond me. Her parents were in denial about her true condition, used her husband as a scapegoat, while various politicians and pundits hung around like carpetbaggers, trying to milk it for all it was worth, including I might add, Jesse Jackson. End of story.
 

Truncador

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So, when do we hear an apology from her parents, Randall Terry, Bill Frist, Tom Delay, Sean Hannity, or Bill O'Reilly for being so utterly fucking wrong?
Yes, her parents should apologize profusely for wanting to keep their daughter alive. Bill Frist should apologize for thinking that protecting citizens against one another is any of his business as a senior man of State. Randall Terry should repent on his knees for having beliefs inconsistent with Darwin. So should everyone who thought the courts should err on the side of the preservation of life in such a case.
 

Truncador

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The problem in the Schiavo case was a matter of strategy. The lawyer should have paid somebody to say she had ties to al-Qaida. Then, the ACLU, People for the American Way, etc. would have formed a legal (and physical) human chain around her.
 

Asterix

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Truncador said:
The problem in the Schiavo case was a matter of strategy. The lawyer should have paid somebody to say she had ties to al-Qaida. Then, the ACLU, People for the American Way, etc. would have formed a legal (and physical) human chain around her.
More than a little bored today? Let it go. Attempts at wit like this are pathetic.
 

Truncador

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In postmodern society, bad satire and good analysis are often impossible to rigorously demarcate.
 

TOVisitor

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Truncador said:
Yes, her parents should apologize profusely for wanting to keep their daughter alive. Bill Frist should apologize for thinking that protecting citizens against one another is any of his business as a senior man of State. Randall Terry should repent on his knees for having beliefs inconsistent with Darwin. So should everyone who thought the courts should err on the side of the preservation of life in such a case.
"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell

I wish that I had the sureness of my positions that you do trunc.
 

TOVisitor

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Asterix said:
You know, I agree with you in principle about most things, but why you need to include the last line is beyond me. Her parents were in denial about her true condition, used her husband as a scapegoat, while various politicians and pundits hung around like carpetbaggers, trying to milk it for all it was worth, including I might add, Jesse Jackson. End of story.
Why do I include the latter statement?

This is why:

Truncador said:
Yes, her parents should apologize profusely for wanting to keep their daughter alive. Bill Frist should apologize for thinking that protecting citizens against one another is any of his business as a senior man of State. Randall Terry should repent on his knees for having beliefs inconsistent with Darwin. So should everyone who thought the courts should err on the side of the preservation of life in such a case.
The parents accused her husband of physcially harming her.

Frist disgnosed her from a videotape as being able to see.

Randall Terry -- whose "family values" has caused him divorce his wife and banish his own homosexual daughter -- turned the whole thing into an exercise in demgoguery.

Remember Mr. Terry? In a 1995 speech, Terry said of doctors who perform abortions, “When I, or people like me, are running the country, you’d better flee, because we will find you, we will try you and we will execute you.”

If THOSE are the kind of people you want to make excuses for and snide remarks about, truncador, go right ahead. You have already revealed your inner self to us, SO many times.
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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Truncador said:
In postmodern society, bad satire and good analysis are often impossible to rigorously demarcate.
Swell. Then take a good laxative.
 

TOVisitor

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Asterix said:
Swell. Then take a good laxitive.
This reminds me of the Texan whose family was too poor to afford him a decent burial when he died, so they gave him an enema and buried him in a shoebox.

Hey, trunc! Sure, you aren't a Texan by birth?
 

Cool Dude

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Feb 25, 2002
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Is this supposed to be some sort of a "gotcha" TOV?

This was a very personal story to me since I had to make the same decision the husband made for both my father and my mother. Teri Schiavo was severely brain-damaged and the autopsy proves that whatever reactions she had to visual stimuli were perceived not real. People were throwing out the term brain-dead at the time. She was not clinically brain-dead. I never viewed this story as a political issue but a very sad and personal tragedy for both her parents and her husband. What I find disgusting is you using this tragedy to try and score some political debating points on an escort review board.
 

TOVisitor

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Well I feel for you. I really do. I had to make a similar decision for my mother.

As to my scoring "political debating points," perhaps you should have asked Randalll Terry, Bill Frist, Tom Delay, and George Bush to get off THEIR high horse to score debate points with the USA. I did not start this thing. It was a pack of scurrilous and mendacious Republicans that started this sorry display -- hoping to score points with their followers. All that it did was turn off the citizens of the US to what SHOULD have been a very personal decision. Wanna find something disgusting? Start with them.

As to posting this on an escort review board ... hello? Take your gripes up with the moderators. If you think there should NOT be political discussions on this board, complain to them. Not me.
 

Cool Dude

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Feb 25, 2002
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Fuck them! Frist made a diagnosis from watching an hour of video tape, As for the rest of them, fuck them too! You have no idea, NO IDEA, how pissed off I was at how both Republicans and Democrats used this girl for political cover. Then again, maybe you do know now. As for asking some of them to get off their high horse first. I did! If I am unhappy with the way my political leaders act, I e-mail and write letters to them. This case was no exception.

PS- In remembrance of my parents and your mother, you are spared a fuck you too!
 
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TOVisitor

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Thanks and I am quite sincere in my feelings for you. It's a terribly personal time and the government has no place being there with you.

Peace.
 

TOVisitor

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americanson said:
Interesting to note though: Famed O.J. detective Mark Fuhrman has a new book coming out next week that deals with this issue. I'm looking forward to it as he already has 4 best-sellers to his credit, a spot on Hannity and Colmes and a twice-weekly radio show based in Spokane: All About Crime.
Thanks for checking in from the wingnut side of the world. Yes, it will be very interesting to see what kind of poo ole' Mark has to fling. No reason to let the facts get in the way of a good red-meat story to sell to the Kool-aid drinkers.
 

langeweile

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Sep 21, 2004
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In a van down by the river
Cool Dude said:
Fuck them! Frist made a diagnosis from watching an hour of video tape, As for the rest of them, fuck them too! You have no idea, NO IDEA, how pissed off I was at how both Republicans and Democrats used this girl for political cover. Then again, maybe you do know now. As for asking some of them to get off their high horse first. I did! If I am unhappy with the way my political leaders act, I e-mail and write letters to them. This case was no exception.

PS- In remembrance of my parents and your mother, you are spared a fuck you too! :)

I agree it you was a sad spectacle, even worse the hacks on both side just don't know when to shut up, even today.
May she rest in peace.
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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Truncador, you're wrong as per usual, but as that's expected, no disappointment.

TOV, your partisan BS is really becoming annoying, especially in matters like this. Give it a rest. Please.

Cool Dude, thank you for bringing us back into the land of reality, however briefly.

Having had my father and family go through this after his stroke, I can't describe how offended I am that such matters as this become political footballs. It is a deeply personal and wrenching experience, that has no place in public speculation.
 

Truncador

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In a free State, everything is a matter for public speculation- especially the question of who may cause whose death and for what reason, which is absolutely fundamental to public law as we know it, and at any rate had in this case been brought before the public courts. The Schiavo affair raises issues that can, should, and indeed must be discussed and debated by as many people as possible.
 

TOVisitor

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Want to know who was keeping the Schiavo case alive for 15 years? Right wing Republicans. Just folllow the money.


From: http://mediatransparency.org/storyprinterfriendly.php?storyID=56

March 24, 2005
Team Schiavo's Deep Pockets
A host of right wing organizations, many of which are affiliated with the Philanthropy Roundtable -- a consortium of right wing foundations and philanthropists -- have been copiously funding the Terri Schiavo case


If you don't follow the ins and outs of the philanthropy scene you likely have never heard of the Philanthropy Roundtable. Jon Eisenberg, a lawyer working on the Terri Schiavo case wasn't familiar with the organization either until a few months after he filed an amicus curiae brief in the Florida Supreme Court on behalf of 55 bioethicists and a disability rights organization opposing Gov. Jeb Bush's action in trying "to overturn a court order to remove Terri's feeding tube."

Eisenberg, who appeared at a Florida State University public debate with lawyers for Gov. Bush and the Schiavo family two months after filing the suit, was curious as to whether Pat Anderson, "one of multiple attorneys who have represented" Terri's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, and Wesley Smith and Rita Marker, "two activists whose specialty is opposing surrogate removal of life-support from comatose and persistent vegetative state patients," were doing this work on a "pro bono" basis as he was.

Through Internet searching, Eisenberg discovered that "many of the attorneys, activists and organizations working to keep Schiavo on life support all these years have been funded by members of the Philanthropy Roundtable". For nearly 30 years the Roundtable has been providing a forum for right wing philanthropists who, according to the organization's website, are interested in "promot[ing] greater respect for private, voluntary approaches to individual and community betterment."

<snip>

Eisenberg uncovered the fact that "Schindler lawyer Pat Anderson 'was paid directly' by the anti-abortion Life Legal Defense Foundation, which 'has already spent over $300,000 on this case.'" The Alliance Defense Fund, which is involved with the Life Legal Defense Foundation, "collected more than $15 million in private donations in 2002 and admits to having spent money on the Schiavo case 'in the six figures,' according to a recent article in the Palm Beach Post," Eisenberg wrote.

According to Eisenberg, "Wesley Smith and Rita Marker also work for organizations that get funding from [Philanthropy] Roundtable members," particularly the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation. "Smith is a paid senior fellow with the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank that advocates the teaching of creationist 'intelligent design' theory in public schools...Marker is executive director of the International Task Force on Euthanasia [and Assisted Suicide], which lobbies against physician-assisted suicide. In 2001, Marker's organization received $110,390 from the Randolph Foundation, an affiliate of the Smith Richardson family."

<snip>

During an October 27, 2003 interview with CNN's Larry King, Schiavo told him that the Schindler's had offered him $700,000 "to walk away" from his wife:

King: They have that kind of money?

Schiavo: They get money from the right-wing activists. The right wing -- the right-to-life groups.

King: The right-to-life group was willing to pay you $700,000 to walk away?

Schiavo: Right.

Read the ful story at the link about the right wing money and get really disgusted at the evil that these people represent. This is today's Republican party in action.
 

TOVisitor

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Truncador said:
The Schiavo affair raises issues that can, should, and indeed must be discussed and debated by as many people as possible.
Except, of course trunc, if you are poor and black.

From: http://meteor-blades.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/19/7441/23269

Sat Mar 19th, 2005 at 11:04:41 GMT

Terri's legal guardian is her husband, who is living with another woman, by whom he has had children. He says no feeding tube, her parents say leave it in. There is money available for her care from a court settlement.

Sun Hudson was born 6 months ago with an incurable condition that would require a ventilator and intensive custodial care all his life, which would not be long, even with that care.

His legal guardian was his mother, who received no prenatal care during her pregnancy. She did not want his breathing tube removed. She said that he just needed more time to get energy from his father, the sun. No man claimed paternity. Sun's mother does not have money.

The state of Texas chose not to appoint a guardian ad litem for Sun. Had they done so, they would have had to assume financial responsibility for him. The other day, they removed his breathing tube against his mother's wishes.

My question: If Terry Schiavo, her husband, and her parents were all poor, no court money, no insurance or insurance running out, what would be the reaction of the various political and religious factions? Would we even know Terri's name?

Indeed, trunc, indeed.
 
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