Ethical hobbying

[tilting]

Without getting into moral debates of whether it is right to indulge in this hobby or not, is there a way of knowing that your encounter is the result of two adults making a conscious decision? I sometimes doubt that 19 year olds would become escorts on their own volition without abuse, desperation or subtle coercion being a part of the equation.

In other words, to what degree is a regular hobbyist promoting issues like drug and child abuse..and human trafficking.

 

[mrsCALoki]

Actually 3 people if you are married. Loki is allowed to cheat and see SPs, as long as he does not complain when I castrate him.

 

[bigshot]

I tend to prefer women who are a little older who operate as an independent SP. When I see so many of these cheap asian places, really young girls, and Russians who seem to come and go quickly, I often wonder if they are here against their will. Yes, there is something to be considered about ethical hobbying and we all need to have our radar on when seeing a sex trade worker, be it an SP, MPA or whatever. An easy example of unethical hobbying would be anyone who sees an underaged girl. For example, I think that most guys could agree that this is just wrong...

 

[Ridgeman08]

Hmmm... until recently I didn't give this much thought. I have always had reservations about visiting agency's that overly promote the new "young" SP for this very reason. Not that I am making insinuations mind you... I'd just rather not be in a position to umm, get caught w/ my pants down so to speak. (pun intended...) :wink: So I avoid them altogether, as I do not want to promote ANY of those issues you are referring to.

That is why, I restrict myself to seeing "indy girls", thinking an independent SP would be in a position to be making all those decisions on her own and all completely voluntary. I have seen SP's ranging in (advertised) age of 19 through to 43. All of them are well reviewed and/or well researched ahead of time to make sure things were totally on the up and up. For the most part, I am happy to say, that my experiences have all been positive.

Lately though, I'm having renewed reservations, so I'm thinking I may need to step up my screening process.

Can't be too careful ya know.

 

[tilting]

Thanks bhfan. I agree quite a bit with your opinion. To me it just seems that a mature SP has probably made a more careful decision in choosing her profession than some 18 year old. The 18 year old SP may still have parents who are worried sick where their 'baby' is when she returns late at night. An older woman is more likely assumed to be in control of her life.

 

[tilting]

thanks bigshot and ridgeman. I am glad that fellow hobbyists share these concerns.

 

[legmann]

Without getting into moral debates of whether it is right to indulge in this hobby or not, is there a way of knowing that your encounter is the result of two adults making a conscious decision? I sometimes doubt that 19 year olds would become escorts on their own volition without abuse, desperation or subtle coercion being a part of the equation.

In other words, to what degree is a regular hobbyist promoting issues like drug and child abuse..and human trafficking.

Good questions. There is no shortage of girls who choose to be in this line of work but many who don't. I stay away from the obvious: asian massage/micro brothels, and Backpage independents bearing all the hallmarks of a girl being pimped or trying to support a drug habit, for example.

 

[Toronto`s Finest]

I totally support Ethical hobbying. Were there is no demand, supply will shrivel up.

 

[tilting]

Unfortunately the demand for 60$ blow'n'go you can find on backpages isnt going away anytime soon. But the guy who can only afford 60 bucks has as much right to hobby as someone who goes to a better established 250 dollar SP.

 

[spendin2much]

abcd

 

[freestuff]

abcd

Always be closing, dick?

No, there is never a 100% way to know. You can ask the SP but if she's being coerced then she's probably going to lie. I guess you can make broad assumptions but that's all.

 

[Don]

Stick to independent SPs and well regarded agencies that employ local girls.

 

[Chimpanzeethat]

Interesting thread.

I don't have a definitive answer, beyond simply asking the girl/woman how she feels about what she's doing. Of course, if abuse or coercion at play, she may not want to tell you, but you would at least have made the effort to find out.

But what I wonder is, does sex for pay merit some kind of special attention when it comes to ethical practice? The purchase of a diamond, a hand made rug, or an iphone could each put me in ethically questionable territory.

 

[Narg]

I see this primarily as an issue of ego protection by hobbyists. If you want to be certain that you are not having sex with an escort who is being coerced, then don't see any escorts. Everything else ... from refusing escorts who are "too young", to only seeing independent escorts or escorts from "well regarded agencies" ... is just so the hobbyist can look himself in the mirror and assure himself that he is not a "bad" man and that he is "certain" that he does not exploit desperate women.

Incidentally, I am not suggesting that all escorts are coerced, just that there is no way to be absolutely certain that any particular escort is not being coerced.

 

[Catherine St.Claire]

We had an excellent discussion in the Ottawa section about this recently and I weighed in with some input as to my insight of the younger sps after my 25 willing years in the industry. If you`re a reader, here is the link https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?416540-The-dark-side-of-hobbying. I`m not going to cut and paste as it is lengthy...

I find the word "trafficked" to be offensive. It`s outdated and isn`t broadly applicable in the sex trade taking place in developed countries from what I have personally experienced. Touring foreign sex workers is a business but the laws and media fail to look closely at the reality of the model. Society likes to demonize the trade in any way it can. Making sex brokers the bad guys plays into the typical stereotypes that people like to believe the gold lame miniskirts and hooker boots myth; it successfully keeps clients scared of the trafficking boogey man. I would like to offer some insight my personal experience with being "trafficked". I worked extensively in the southern U.S. and for some time worked with a network of lock down brothels located in several different states. I willingly signed up and continued to return to work for them for years. The $ was good, the work was stable and it was safer than running for agencies that didn`t verify as diligently as they should have. Over the several years I traveling the circuit, I met and lived with women from all over the world and not once did I meet a woman who was there by force. They, like me, signed on of their own free will and knew what they were getting into before they left home. The difference between the foreign ladies and myself was that I didn`t have the visas, plane tickets and brokerage fees to pay off the way they did. I split my $ with the house only, the other ladies had to pay a portion of their earnings to their brokers as well as the house. In the end, I cleared $100/hr per call, they cleared from $25 to $65 depending on which brokerage they worked with and where they were from. While there is a seemingly huge inequity in the pay, when you looked at it from their point of view, they were making excellent $. Some of them only made $25/wk at home so they could make a months pay in a day and their tours lasted from 3 months to a year. They could literally make 5 years of income in less than a year and some of the ladies came back every year for a 3 month tour. The working conditions where excellent, clients verified and no one was forced or even expected to perform unsafe services. The living conditions were spartan and below my traditional environment but I never heard any real complaining about it as they come from places that do not have the standard of living we are accustomed to. Most were grateful to have their own beds, hot showers and a functional kitchen to cook in. They also didn`t have an issue about the fact that I made more money than they did because they understood coming in how much they were going to make and for some, it was like a lottery win for them to even be given the chance to make that much money.

The only real issue I had was that if they decided to cut their stay short, they were still on the hook for the total brokerage fee which was sometimes as high as $50Gs for a 1 year tour, most tho were between $10-25Gs. It made it impossible for them to leave if there was a family emergency or they were home sick. The brokers didn`t take a percentage of the income, they charged a flat fee that was paid off per call so if a girl wanted to back out, they couldn`t. That said, it wasn`t often a girl needed to leave and I never saw one go home early because she couldn`t afford the brokerage fee.

There is a sensationalized view of the "sex trafficking trade" portrayed by the media imo. Do these women make as much as locals? No. Are they snatched off a street, held against their will and forced to work? Not the ones that I met. I`m not saying that it doesn`t happen but I would challenge the statistics provided and blindly accepted as accurate and true...

cat

p.s. A lock down brothel is a location that girls go for a set duration of time and during their stay they do not leave the building. Most locations are in industrial areas or rural residential. There are dormitories where the ladies sleep and the working space is separated from where the girls actually live. Most have barred windows and doors with the outdoor areas covered with wrought iron structures. They range in size from a small 2-3 lady operation to larger ones housing from 25-40 ladies.

 

[bigshot]

Everything else ... from refusing escorts who are "too young", to only seeing independent escorts or escorts from "well regarded agencies" ... is just so the hobbyist can look himself in the mirror and assure himself that he is not a "bad" man and that he is "certain" that he does not exploit desperate women.
QUOTE]

I disagree with your assumption here, Narg, I don't think that we're looking to confirm for ourselves that we're not "bad people". While you are correct to say that we cannot be certain in all cases, it's just common decency to avoid situations where you might be supporting a sex trade worker who is in the business due to sinister exploitation by another party. And no, I do not include agencies or booking agents in this category. Rather than trying to make ourselves feel better, we're saying that it's best practice to show decency and good judgement when making your choices...

 

[Plan B]

I can understand ones concern for the women in this business, but c'mon, why is ethics in this industry a one way street? How many times do I have to be lied to regarding ages of women in the industry...I ask for someone's age and they quote me a number easily ten years younger than they are. What about the rampant theft of money by SPs and Dancers? Getting charged for 5 dances when I only had 3. The list goes on and on. Where are the ethics in that?

I'm tired of these women seen as "victims". The johns are providing them with a source of income, pleasant conversation, food for their kids, etc. I'm tired of johns always being seen as bad. What the hell is this..Sweden.?

 

[boomboom]

Hmmm... until recently I didn't give this much thought. I have always had reservations about visiting agency's that overly promote the new "young" SP for this very reason. Not that I am making insinuations mind you... I'd just rather not be in a position to umm, get caught w/ my pants down so to speak. (pun intended...) :wink: So I avoid them altogether, as I do not want to promote ANY of those issues you are referring to.

That is why, I restrict myself to seeing "indy girls", thinking an independent SP would be in a position to be making all those decisions on her own and all completely voluntary. I have seen SP's ranging in (advertised) age of 19 through to 43. All of them are well reviewed and/or well researched ahead of time to make sure things were totally on the up and up. For the most part, I am happy to say, that my experiences have all been positive.

Lately though, I'm having renewed reservations, so I'm thinking I may need to step up my screening process.

Can't be too careful ya know.

agreed my friend
boom

 

[afterhours]

We should always be vigilant! But sometimes it is difficult to make the right decision on the spot.

For example, I have recently been purchasing a cup of coffee in McDonald's drive through and noticed that a young girl who served me had very sad eyes. I suspect she was coerced to work there or maybe even trafficked. Clearly she was being exploited. I am still not sure whether I should have proceeded with transaction or refused to continue.

 

[james t kirk]

When you castrate Mr Loki, he will then become Mrs Loki. Just making an observation!!!!!!!

No, he will become mrsCALoki