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Drastic new tool to fight money laundering alarms civil rights advocates

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
B.C. has a $7.4-billion problem — that's the bottom line of two bombshell reports on money laundering released this week.

The big question now is how the province plans to fight it.

Together, the reports make dozens of suggestions for tackling the issue, but civil liberties advocates were alarmed to see something called unexplained wealth orders (UWOs) among the recommendations.

These orders go a step beyond civil forfeiture and "allow confiscation without finding the crime," an expert panel led by criminal law expert Maureen Maloney wrote in its report, released Thursday.

"I think it's an incredibly troubling notion," said Micheal Vonn, policy director of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association.

With UWOs, anyone targeted by the government would be required to prove they bought their property using legitimate sources of income. The province wouldn't need to show any link to criminal activity.

Maloney suggested UWOs would be particularly helpful in cases where the cash might be connected to crimes committed outside of Canada.

For critics like Vonn, however, the proposal is fraught with serious issues, like doing away with the presumption of innocence and subverting the rights that shield Canadians from unreasonable search and seizure.

"What you have is a report that basically sets out to say, look, we just don't have the policing resources or expertise to get at this, so how do we get around the criminal law?" she said.

Another tool for confiscating property
The province already has multiple options for confiscating property linked to crime. B.C. Finance Minister Carole James told CBC News in an email that the government will consider adding UWOs to the list.

The Criminal Code has long allowed for forfeiture of property when someone has been convicted of a crime.

B.C. also has a civil forfeiture system, which means someone doesn't need to be convicted, charged or even arrested to lose their belongings to the government, as long as the province can prove on a balance of probabilities that there's a connection to crime.

If the value of the property is estimated at under $75,000, the strength of that evidence is only tested when someone files a dispute to a forfeiture notice.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...laundering-unexplained-wealth-order-1.5132202
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
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west gta
BC is never going to rid themselves of Chinese crime no matter how hard they try
You have to wonder how dense they were in the first place to not even suspect criminal links before
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
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Yeah, I never support getting rid of the presumption of innocence. That's fucked.
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
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48
Why not just have a set of rules and guidelines for buying houses in cash. You have a mortgage that goes through things and makes sure you can afford your house, why not make something up for cash purchased homes that make you show proof of income source. Do it at the beginning of the sale, instead of deciding after the fact, to confiscate unconstitutionally later.
 

icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
1,692
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Why not just have a set of rules and guidelines for buying houses in cash. You have a mortgage that goes through things and makes sure you can afford your house, why not make something up for cash purchased homes that make you show proof of income source. Do it at the beginning of the sale, instead of deciding after the fact, to confiscate unconstitutionally later.
When will police learn to use the tools that have been given to them and actually learn how to investigate crime.

This is another useless reactive solution by law enforcement, that will only result in creating bad case law and making it harder to go after criminals.


Police need to learn to be st4rategic with their investigation, not reactive, only then will they be able to seriously impact organized crime.
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
4,048
48
48
When will police learn to use the tools that have been given to them and actually learn how to investigate crime.

This is another useless reactive solution by law enforcement, that will only result in creating bad case law and making it harder to go after criminals.


Police need to learn to be st4rategic with their investigation, not reactive, only then will they be able to seriously impact organized crime.
I get that. That should go without saying but I think my point is still valid. If income sources are so important, then be proactive, not reactionary.
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,703
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They don't need any tools that over step civil rights. They just need to do their jobs. It was no secret that Chinese money was flooding B.C.'s market.
 

Big Sleazy

Active member
Sep 13, 2004
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The biggest money launderers are Banks. Go take out a mortgage. Did the Banks hand you over a bag of cash ? No they didn't. You want to know why ? Because they don't have the money. For the BC Government to be pondering civil asset forfeiture when these banks can operate daily without even having any money is the real crime. And who do you think launders all the drug money or money from crime ? Banks. If the Government wants to help the citizens they would outlaw Banks and enforce Public Banking.
 

icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
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I get that. That should go without saying but I think my point is still valid. If income sources are so important, then be proactive, not reactionary.
Sorry Jessica, I didn't notice that I pressed reply with quotes, instead of reply. I use my phone and the window for typing is pretty small.

But I fully agree with you.
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
8,052
731
113
west gta
Why not just have a set of rules and guidelines for buying houses in cash. You have a mortgage that goes through things and makes sure you can afford your house, why not make something up for cash purchased homes that make you show proof of income source. Do it at the beginning of the sale, instead of deciding after the fact, to confiscate unconstitutionally later.
Um like FINTRAC? Kinda already exists....
 

hamermill

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2001
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In a place far, far away
B.C. also has a civil forfeiture system, which means someone doesn't need to be convicted, charged or even arrested to lose their belongings to the government, as long as the province can prove on a balance of probabilities that there's a connection to crime.

SPs I would be worried about this as it applies to you.
 

icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
1,692
84
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Um like FINTRAC? Kinda already exists....
Except that the police never bothered looking at the information they had collected. Because of fintrac, they know that 100 billion has been laundered.

What good is information if you have incompetent investigators.

Today's national post headline reads...

"RCMP wouldn’t mind a look at new evidence that led to end of Mark Norman case".

Shouldn't it be the other way around, news organizations demanding to see the information.

Seems like police today is more like insp. Clouseau.
 

Frontstreet

Senior Member
May 16, 2016
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Toronto, Vancouver
Not all of the so called “money laundering” is from proceeds of crime. Some of it just comes from China; moving money offshore largely obtained via legal business is still deemed inappropriate by Chinese authorities if it exceeds personal exemption limits. We should care about laundered money from proceeds of crime, not sure we should care much about legitimate funds flowing into Canada from China even if it exceeds Chinese exemption limits.
 
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