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Do Conspiracy Theories Thrive In Religious Groups?

Knuckle Ball

Well-known member
Oct 15, 2017
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You don't think it would make any difference if the orange crook believed he won or lost that last election?
Well…Not really…No. The outcome is identical either way. I think Trump flows freely back and forth between fantasy and reality. At any given moment I don’t know how you can ever tell how far gone into his fantasies he goes.

Either way, the more he repeats it, the more it is amplified on Fox News, OAN, etc. At some point, if you can get enough people to play along you can create your own reality.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Both American and Canadian post election maps show that rural communities vote further to the political right of cities. Explain to me how I am wrong about small towns. They consistently vote for the Tories, rather than the Libs and the GOP rather than the Dems.

The fact that you can toss around a few of your own off-the-cuff stereotypes and take a personal shot at me - as you very often do - doesn't change that fact.

City folks get evicted and foreclosed too. But they vote for centrist and progressive parties.

I have nothing personal against small towns. I just read data. Every rural district in the US that was neither Black nor Latino voted for Trump in the last election, except in New England.

Ditto in Canada in the last election outside the Maritimes, all rural ridings voted for the Tories or BQ.

Part and parcel of voting for your "populist" buddy Trump is buying in to his package of dog whistles about immigrants and city folk. And it's the GOP voters that buy into crap like QAnon and the Big Steal. Dems don't touch that shit.

You can call elections in most states now simply by calculating the % of rural vs city electoral districts. And built into that is the factor that the % of post secondary educated voters is far higher in the cities than in the small towns.

So if you want to comment on the "tone" of my posts, go do some research first. It's a lot more informative than your own smug back-patting about "Keswick" and how much they love you there when you throw some pennies around on the weekend.
Have you ever asked why the voting patterns are this way?

Its not the job of citizens to cow tow to the political whims of politcians but politicians to represent their constituents. If that involves more conservative values then that is democracy in action.

And considering the failures of both parties in the USA to do just that, why are you surprised? The Iraq war lies alone have killed trust, let alone the 2008 crisis. Washington serves the donor class now. And that has spilled over here to a smaller degree. And city people also vote conservative. You think the modern Dem party is progressive? They just prefer it it voting with the rubes but want the same low tax, low regulation, ability to purchase politicians atmosphere.

Both parties play identity politics. Play to prejudices while serving the same masters.

And yes you are a smug lawyer who is dismissive of anyone not of your social class. Or you would see what these people turning to extreme ideas are searching for. Which is an answer to the corrupt 2 party system in the USA.

In Canada we are more lucky due to a better education system, a multi party system, and a better welfare state so the social unrest is limited. Right now 15 million house holds are about to be evicted in the USA, probably have no healthcare, and are seeing a Dem Majority Congress go home to fundraise in August.

And the GOP don't give a shit either. At that point to many ANY OPTION may be better because they have nothing to lose.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Have you ever asked why the voting patterns are this way?

Its not the job of citizens to cow tow to the political whims of politcians but politicians to represent their constituents. If that involves more conservative values then that is democracy in action.

And considering the failures of both parties in the USA to do just that, why are you surprised? The Iraq war lies alone have killed trust, let alone the 2008 crisis. Washington serves the donor class now. And that has spilled over here to a smaller degree. And city people also vote conservative. You think the modern Dem party is progressive? They just prefer it it voting with the rubes but want the same low tax, low regulation, ability to purchase politicians atmosphere. Both parties play identity politics. Play to prejudices while serving the same masters.

And yes you are a smug lawyer who is dismissive of anyone not of your social class. Or you would see what these people turning to extreme ideas are searching for. Which is an answer to the corrupt 2 party system in the USA.

In Canada we are more lucky due to a better education system, a multi party system, and a better welfare state so the social unrest is limited. Right now 15 million house holds are about to be evicted in the USA, probably have no healthcare, and are seeing a Dem Majority Congress go home to fundraise in August. And the GOP don't give a shit either. At that point to many ANY OPTION may be better because they have nothing to lose.
This is your usual spiel about the "donor class", yadda-yadda - with a few personal insults thrown in. Because this is how you roll.

Let me repeat. Voting patterns in rural constituencies are completely different than in urban constituencies. The urban poor are unequal as well. They vote for centrist or left of centre parties. The rural folk vote hard right. The GOP doesn't offer any solution to inequality. They offer status quo with glorification of exactly those elements that make Americans unequal - low taxes, no government health care, high cost post secondary education. At a certain point you are going to have to sit up and simply accept that the social uprising that you wank in your pants over is not going to take place because it's a sad little fantasy of you and your buds and no one else gives a shit - least of all those people you strut around pretending to support.

Here's something you can do, instead of calling me a "smug lawyer" - Check vaccine acceptance rates in Missouri. High in the cities and probably still around 30% in the Jesus-loving, science-hating rural areas. Those are the people who give no shit about the fact that they are - apparently according to you - "oppressed". What they really care about is scoffing at Fauci and the other city doctors who try and tell them what to do.

Here's something else. Rural Midwest America votes further right now than it did 100 years ago. Why is that, Butler?..... Because they're not actually "oppressed" any more the way they were in the 20's and 30's. They live pretty well now. And they've pivoted to focusing on Culture War issues rather than how to get enough food for their kids.

So spare me your self-congratulating "I'm a rich executive who really, really feels for the poor folk".

Let me tell you something else. The corrupt politicians who tell their voters that it's a Culture War because the Dems have cancelled Dr Seuss?.... They spew out that shit because that's what gets their voters hard. If their voters wanted higher tax on corporations, that's what they'd get from Washington.

It's part of your own smug irony that you extend the people you purport to support so little respect and credit that you tell me that they believe whatever the GOP tells them, even though it is directly counter to their own desperate best interests...... That's bullshit! The US rural voter is perfectly intelligent to voice his / her own concerns. It's just that they don't give a shit about "the uprising". They have more than enough $$$ and stuff and what they really seek is a political party that'll kick the Blacks and Latinos around. And THAT'S why OK votes 70% GOP.

If OK didn't vote GOP, there'd be some hayseed version of AOC giving hell-raising speeches in Tulsa this very week. But that's an alternate reality that doesn't exist.
 
Last edited:

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
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This is your usual spiel about the "donor class", yadda-yadda - with a few personal insults thrown in. Because this is how you roll.

Let me repeat. Voting patterns in rural constituencies are completely different than in urban constituencies. The urban poor are unequal as well. They vote for centrist or left of centre parties. The rural folk vote hard right. The GOP doesn't offer any solution to inequality. They offer status quo with glorification of exactly those elements that make Americans unequal - low taxes, no government health care, high cost post secondary education. At a certain point you are going to have to sit up and simply accept that the social uprising that you wank in your pants over is not going to take place because it's a sad little fantasy of you and your buds and no one else gives a shit - least of all those people you strut around pretending to support.

Here's something you can do, instead of calling me a "smug lawyer" - Check vaccine acceptance rates in Missouri. High in the cities and probably still around 30% in the Jesus-loving, science-hating rural areas. Those are the people who give no shit about the fact that they are - apparently according to you - "oppressed". What they really care about is scoffing at Fauci and the other city doctors who try and tell them what to do.

Here's something else. Rural Midwest America votes further right now than it did 100 years ago. Why is that, Butler?..... Because they're not actually "oppressed" any more the way they were in the 20's and 30's. They live pretty well now. And they've pivoted to focusing on Culture War issues rather than how to get enough food for their kids.

So spare me your self-congratulating "I'm a rich executive who really, really feels for the poor folk".

Let me tell you something else. The corrupt politicians who tell their voters that it's a Culture War because the Dems have cancelled Dr Seuss?.... They spew out that shit because that's what gets their voters hard. If their voters wanted higher tax on corporations, that's what they'd get from Washington.

It's part of your own smug irony that you extend the people you purport to support so little respect and credit that you tell me that they believe whatever the GOP tells them, even though it is directly counter to their own desperate best interests...... That's bullshit! The US rural voter is perfectly intelligent to voice his / her own concerns. It's just that they don't give a shit about "the uprising". They have more than enough $$$ and stuff and what they really seek is a political party that'll kick the Blacks and Latinos around. And THAT'S why OK votes 70% GOP.

If OK didn't vote GOP, there'd be some hayseed version of AOC giving hell-raising speeches in Tulsa this very week. But that's an alternate reality that doesn't exist.
Denying the existence of a donor class just says how clueless you are.
 

kherg007

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May 3, 2014
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In answer to the original question: Yes.
Next question...
 
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mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Denying the existence of a donor class just says how clueless you are.
I didn't "deny the existence of the donor class".

I didn't mention or deal with the donor class at all.

This is a repeat of your last "interaction" with me when you accused me repeatedly of being a "pedophile" until the mods deleted your posts and locked the thread.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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...
But on a serious note when large corporations/stock holders/ bankers based in cities make decisions that result in foreclosures, business shut downs, insurance pay out refusals, hiked fees, low service, and those same smug city dwellers refer to them as deplorable, act shitty and self entitled when they visit on weekends to somewhere Quaint, do you expect them to like them? Trust them?
...
I never knew that everyone living in a city was foreclosing and shutting down small towns. Wasn't someone just complaining about generalizations.

And sorry but that whole free speech thing means us "smug" city folk are free to criticize when certain small town people are racists or conspiracy nuts.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Have you ever asked why the voting patterns are this way?

Its not the job of citizens to cow tow to the political whims of politcians but politicians to represent their constituents. ...
Yep, it's strange that small town people tend to vote for conservative politicians who are beholden to those big city businesses.

But it likely comes down to something far simpler, small town people aren't as used to/comfortable with change as those in city environments and therefore fit the definition of conservative.
 
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mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Yep, it's strange that small town people tend to vote for conservative politicians who are beholden to those big city businesses.

But it likely comes down to something far simpler, small town people aren't as used to/comfortable with change as those in city environments and therefore fit the definition of conservative.
They're not as used to change. They don't meet other cultures and races as frequently. They don't have to adapt to new situations and points of view.

And you can still get by in a small town with a high school education because everyone knows you - and has known your family for 100 years. Jobs which require a post secondary education are city jobs. Sure - in every small town there's a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, a veterinarian and a banker. And that's probably about it. And those guys are probably more conservative than their city counterparts. Cities have universities, head offices, architect offices. big law firms, medical specialists, social workers, etc, etc, etc.

Check a map of red state TX. Dallas-FW, San A and Houston are now a purplish-blue. (Austin was always blue). The rest of the state is deep red. That's because those cities are large, continental centres with all the large, sophisticated entities I listed above. Check a map of red state MO. KC and St Louis are blue. The rest of the state is small town and rural and it's a very deep red. I can show you EXACTLY the same with every state in the US outside the north east.

In the US (and to a lesser extent Canada), small towns are still church-going. And many churches are opposed to those morals and lifestyle changes which are now widely accepted in the cities. Gays have been openly visible in Toronto since the 1980's. They're no longer even noticeable. But small town fundamentalist churches still despise and oppose them. Ditto inter-racial families. And you can now throw in people who belong to non traditional genders.

Religion postulates non-logical explanations for shit - i.e. COVID-19 was caused because gays and Democrats worship Satan. Educated people don't believe that shit. People w high school or less who go to church every week just might.

You believe in explanations which have been discredited since 1688, then believing in QAnon isn't a big jump for you.
 

Leimonis

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Feb 28, 2020
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They're not as used to change. They don't meet other cultures and races as frequently. They don't have to adapt to new situations and points of view.

And you can still get by in a small town with a high school education because everyone knows you - and has known your family for 100 years. Jobs which require a post secondary education are city jobs. Sure - in every small town there's a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, a veterinarian and a banker. And that's probably about it. And those guys are probably more conservative than their city counterparts. Cities have universities, head offices, architect offices. big law firms, medical specialists, social workers, etc, etc, etc.

Check a map of red state TX. Dallas-FW, San A and Houston are now a purplish-blue. (Austin was always blue). The rest of the state is deep red. That's because those cities are large, continental centres with all the large, sophisticated entities I listed above. Check a map of red state MO. KC and St Louis are blue. The rest of the state is small town and rural and it's a very deep red. I can show you EXACTLY the same with every state in the US outside the north east.

In the US (and to a lesser extent Canada), small towns are still church-going. And many churches are opposed to those morals and lifestyle changes which are now widely accepted in the cities. Gays have been openly visible in Toronto since the 1980's. They're no longer even noticeable. But small town fundamentalist churches still despise and oppose them. Ditto inter-racial families. And you can now throw in people who belong to non traditional genders.

Religion postulates non-logical explanations for shit - i.e. COVID-19 was caused because gays and Democrats worship Satan. Educated people don't believe that shit. People w high school or less who go to church every week just might.

You believe in explanations which have been discredited since 1688, then believing in QAnon isn't a big jump for you.
lists of people who have been scammed once are valuable commodity among scammers because these people would be easy to be scammed again. Scammers don't believe that people learn. Scammers believe that idiots would stay idiots.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
3,401
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I never knew that everyone living in a city was foreclosing and shutting down small towns. Wasn't someone just complaining about generalizations.

And sorry but that whole free speech thing means us "smug" city folk are free to criticize when certain small town people are racists or conspiracy nuts.
But I didn't say "everyone" did I?

But there is a nice chunk based on New York city and Washington DC who seem to place profit above people. And use money to rig the system.

And of course you can ctiticize. Feel free to. But it certainly seems you can dish it out but can't take it.....
 
The head of the Southern Baptist convention who felt he had to resign when he was attacked for his anti-trump stands was interviewed a few days ago about the conspiracy and anti-vax lies some preachers are teaching.

He said yes he has seen a lot of conspiracy. QAnon etc in the Church and is appalled by it. He said that in much of the SB history there has been a strong all-white supremacist influence. He feels the racism etc is directly opposite the teaching of Christ and he could no longer be affiliated with such an organization.
 
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