Need some advice. I took my car in to get the oil change. I get a phone call saying that I need a tune up plus a complete flushing of all the fluid in my transmission, rad, coolant, etc. The quote is $800. Seems high to me but I really don't know. What do you think?
Cost of Tune Up
- Thread starter minnie_me
- Start date
How old is the car?
How long has it been since the fluids were changed?
Some warrenties require them to be changed.
What's included in the tune up?
How long has it been since the fluids were changed?
Some warrenties require them to be changed.
What's included in the tune up?
Its hard to say, if its a reputable shop its likely money well spent.
several years ago I had a transmission rebuilt in a service vehichle, Itw as in for an oil change @ one of those no appointment neccecary joints, the guy came over to me with the transmission dipstick in his hand, he said the fluid had gone dark & had a bad smell to it, that it should be changed, I said, Gee, funny, I just had the transmission rebuilt, I'll have to go back to them and see what they say, body language told me that he was BSing me.
This same place tried to sell me an air filter because it was ripped, I demanded to see the manager because it was a new air filter, and the only way it could have got ripped was by them pulling it out of the housing (very awkward), I demanded a new filter to replace the one they had damaged, and the manager agreed!
On that same note, I had the same vehichle in for a tune up, the mechanic (that I've used for 30 yrs) called me & said I have a fuel injection problem, he'd like for me to come see what hes talking about. I have full trust in him but made my way to see what he was talking about, he showed me what the one injector was doing compared to the the other 7, I could see first hand there was a problem, a few hundred dollar tune up became almost a grand, but had I not adreesed the injector problem, I would have cooked the engine.
I am a firm believer in perventitive maintenance, but you also have to be wise, and be careful you're not getting ripped off!
several years ago I had a transmission rebuilt in a service vehichle, Itw as in for an oil change @ one of those no appointment neccecary joints, the guy came over to me with the transmission dipstick in his hand, he said the fluid had gone dark & had a bad smell to it, that it should be changed, I said, Gee, funny, I just had the transmission rebuilt, I'll have to go back to them and see what they say, body language told me that he was BSing me.
This same place tried to sell me an air filter because it was ripped, I demanded to see the manager because it was a new air filter, and the only way it could have got ripped was by them pulling it out of the housing (very awkward), I demanded a new filter to replace the one they had damaged, and the manager agreed!
On that same note, I had the same vehichle in for a tune up, the mechanic (that I've used for 30 yrs) called me & said I have a fuel injection problem, he'd like for me to come see what hes talking about. I have full trust in him but made my way to see what he was talking about, he showed me what the one injector was doing compared to the the other 7, I could see first hand there was a problem, a few hundred dollar tune up became almost a grand, but had I not adreesed the injector problem, I would have cooked the engine.
I am a firm believer in perventitive maintenance, but you also have to be wise, and be careful you're not getting ripped off!
Rad coolant is more like 3 yrs/80,000 K I believeSheik said:
Most plugs are 100,000 k plugs,replacement once a year was the old days.
agreed, plugs are cheap, labour is not, neither is an engine.
Pulling the plugs on the previously mentioned vehichle was how they found out I had an injector problem, the vehichle had just passed an E test with flying colours, there was no obvious driveability or fuel consumtion issues with it, but. based on that, I still wouldnt have the plugs changed anually, but to each their own.
A collegue owns the same as my vehichle, when he had his plugs changed, 2 or 3 of them had never been changed,because whoever did the tune up hadnt bothered to put the vehichle on the hoist to get the other plugs.
It all boils down to having TRUST in your mechanic IMO
Pulling the plugs on the previously mentioned vehichle was how they found out I had an injector problem, the vehichle had just passed an E test with flying colours, there was no obvious driveability or fuel consumtion issues with it, but. based on that, I still wouldnt have the plugs changed anually, but to each their own.
That's assuming the tune up mechanic "reads" the plugs to determine any problem.Sheik said:
A collegue owns the same as my vehichle, when he had his plugs changed, 2 or 3 of them had never been changed,because whoever did the tune up hadnt bothered to put the vehichle on the hoist to get the other plugs.
It all boils down to having TRUST in your mechanic IMO
800 seems really high for basically flushing of all fluids. Newer engines basically tune themselves as you drive. timing, fuel flow, everything is controlled by the onboard computer.
Find out what the charges include and get a second opinion.
Problem is finding a mechanic you trust. As stated, a trustworthy mechanic will call you before starting any repairs not originally discussed, show you exactly what is wrong and what alternatives/damages will result. On top of that he (or she?) will also provide you will all parts that were replaced.
If they don't do all that, move on.......
Find out what the charges include and get a second opinion.
Problem is finding a mechanic you trust. As stated, a trustworthy mechanic will call you before starting any repairs not originally discussed, show you exactly what is wrong and what alternatives/damages will result. On top of that he (or she?) will also provide you will all parts that were replaced.
If they don't do all that, move on.......
Don"t we all?kooley said:hey I have a mortgage too you know
The important thing is to find a good mechanic that you can trust. That solves half of the problems.
What is the mileage, make and age of your car? Tune up is too general of a term, could mean anything.
First thing to do is look in your owner's manual. All change intervals should be in there.
Oil these days is much better than in the past. I still change it every 3 months regardless of mileage because it's easy for me to remember every quarter year. I do it myself so it is cheap. If you use a high quality conventional oil like a Quaker State or Valvoline, you can go quite a long time between oil changes. Follow what your owner's manual says at a minimum. Some GM cars have a sophisticated oil life monitor that tells you when to change it. Some Japanese cars have a cruder system that goes by number of starts and time the engine is on. BMW also has an oil life monitoring system.
There are several types of spark plugs. Copper, platinum and iridium are the popular ones. Copper is not used as much anymore because they don't last as long. Better for performance though as copper is a better conductor than platinum. Copper plugs are usually cheap. Only a couple of bucks a plug. Platinum and iridium is used on a lot of cars because they can go longer without having to be changed. Depending on the application, these plugs can add up to big money. The plugs in a new Ford F150 are a special design and are probably over $50 each. Changing plugs is not a big deal in inline engines as the plugs are easy to get at, but it is a bigger problem in V engines. For example, an LT1 Camaro requires the alternator to be removed, the crossover pipe disconnected, and at least 3 of the 5 plugs need to be removed from underneath the car.
You can tell a lot without pulling plugs on a car by plugging in to the diagnostic computer. There are two measures of fuel delivery. Intergrator and Block Learn Mode for GM cars. BLM is the long term value, and INT is the short term value. Both are striving towards 128. If it is high, like 160, it means the fuel mixture is rich and the computer is trying to remove fuel.
Almost all American cars use hydraulic valves and no adjustment is necessary, however many of the Japanese cars need the valve lash adjusted at certain intervals as they use mechanical lifters.
There are two types of coolant. The conventional green coolant, and the long life orange Dexcool coolant. The Dexcool does not have silica in it and therefore does not grind away the bearing in the waterpump as much as the green coolant and causes less scale buildup. Dexcool is good for at least 100,000 kms.
Almost all cars use Dexron III trans fluid. I think it is good for at least 80,000 or more kms.
Hardly anyone changes thier fuel filter and PCV valve. Around 100,000 is good for the fuel filter and 50 or 100 for PCV depending on which car manufacturer.
Spark plug wires can go an easy 100,000 kms in most cars. That's part of the reason why some cost almost $100 a wire. Some GM cars don't have spark plug wires. The coil pack connects directly to the plug.
Again, all this info can be found in your owner's manual. That is your first source.
First thing to do is look in your owner's manual. All change intervals should be in there.
Oil these days is much better than in the past. I still change it every 3 months regardless of mileage because it's easy for me to remember every quarter year. I do it myself so it is cheap. If you use a high quality conventional oil like a Quaker State or Valvoline, you can go quite a long time between oil changes. Follow what your owner's manual says at a minimum. Some GM cars have a sophisticated oil life monitor that tells you when to change it. Some Japanese cars have a cruder system that goes by number of starts and time the engine is on. BMW also has an oil life monitoring system.
There are several types of spark plugs. Copper, platinum and iridium are the popular ones. Copper is not used as much anymore because they don't last as long. Better for performance though as copper is a better conductor than platinum. Copper plugs are usually cheap. Only a couple of bucks a plug. Platinum and iridium is used on a lot of cars because they can go longer without having to be changed. Depending on the application, these plugs can add up to big money. The plugs in a new Ford F150 are a special design and are probably over $50 each. Changing plugs is not a big deal in inline engines as the plugs are easy to get at, but it is a bigger problem in V engines. For example, an LT1 Camaro requires the alternator to be removed, the crossover pipe disconnected, and at least 3 of the 5 plugs need to be removed from underneath the car.
You can tell a lot without pulling plugs on a car by plugging in to the diagnostic computer. There are two measures of fuel delivery. Intergrator and Block Learn Mode for GM cars. BLM is the long term value, and INT is the short term value. Both are striving towards 128. If it is high, like 160, it means the fuel mixture is rich and the computer is trying to remove fuel.
Almost all American cars use hydraulic valves and no adjustment is necessary, however many of the Japanese cars need the valve lash adjusted at certain intervals as they use mechanical lifters.
There are two types of coolant. The conventional green coolant, and the long life orange Dexcool coolant. The Dexcool does not have silica in it and therefore does not grind away the bearing in the waterpump as much as the green coolant and causes less scale buildup. Dexcool is good for at least 100,000 kms.
Almost all cars use Dexron III trans fluid. I think it is good for at least 80,000 or more kms.
Hardly anyone changes thier fuel filter and PCV valve. Around 100,000 is good for the fuel filter and 50 or 100 for PCV depending on which car manufacturer.
Spark plug wires can go an easy 100,000 kms in most cars. That's part of the reason why some cost almost $100 a wire. Some GM cars don't have spark plug wires. The coil pack connects directly to the plug.
Again, all this info can be found in your owner's manual. That is your first source.
Sorry for the late reply
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions. To answer some of your questions - it is a 93 Toyota Camry with about 190K on it. Honestly, I don't remember the last time my car had anything flushed so I think it is well overdue.
I don't recall exactly what is all being done but in addition to flushing every component that contains a liquid (I'm not a car guy), they are changing the plugs, filters, oil, tire rotation, and a few others as well.
I've been going to this garage for many years and trust them. They are Firestone at Yonge/Eglinton. I guess what is making me second guess this is that I don't recognize the guy behind the counter and don't see the usual crew there so I wonder if the previous owner has sold the business? If was the old crew, I wouldn't have even thought twice about it.
The other thing is, how much more money should I poor into this 13 year old vehicle - though I think I have at least another 100K.
I guess the other question i
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions. To answer some of your questions - it is a 93 Toyota Camry with about 190K on it. Honestly, I don't remember the last time my car had anything flushed so I think it is well overdue.
I don't recall exactly what is all being done but in addition to flushing every component that contains a liquid (I'm not a car guy), they are changing the plugs, filters, oil, tire rotation, and a few others as well.
I've been going to this garage for many years and trust them. They are Firestone at Yonge/Eglinton. I guess what is making me second guess this is that I don't recognize the guy behind the counter and don't see the usual crew there so I wonder if the previous owner has sold the business? If was the old crew, I wouldn't have even thought twice about it.
The other thing is, how much more money should I poor into this 13 year old vehicle - though I think I have at least another 100K.
I guess the other question i
I disagree.Sheik said:
Most plugs are good for 100k or more now. If your engine is running fine, I see no need to change the plugs. The platinum plugs are very expensive. My former Buick 3800 had 6 plugs at around 20 some odd each.
Coolant, changing spring and fall seems very excessive to me. I would go by your owners manual - Scheduled maintenance, not the garage. Often times the dealer has its own reccomended schedule that is far more frequent than that of the manufacturer. The orange coolant Dexcool has a lot of people complaining about it - see www.gm-v6lemons.com for example.
Oil changes, agree. You can't hurt your engine by changing the oil, and it's relatively inexpensive.
I would suggest you change your oil every 5k and your transmission and coolant as per the owners manual.
You can change your own oil / coolant / trans fluid, it's quite easy. The City of Toronto accepts hazardous waste at its transfer stations free of charge, so dispose of it properly.
thanks bud at least you got that.Sheik said:
by the way shiek is right for the price of plugs and labour, once a year will pay for itself in the fuel and emission savings, and besides if you ever have a problem it is one less thing to eliminate when troubleshooting which is a fortune.
