As usual, more DOFO hair-brained, half-baked, private sector giveaway stupidity.
Province pushing for above ground garage at Ontario Place due to cost, says head of CNE
The CEO of the CNE said he was told by the province that an underground parking garage could cost $800 million.
July 26, 2024
The ministry in charge of Ontario Place redevelopment seems determined to build a new parking lot for spa customers and other visitors above ground, citing potentially massive costs of burying it near Lake Ontario, says the head of the agency that runs the Ex.
Darrell Brown, CEO of the Canadian National Exhibition Association (CNEA), said a senior Infrastructure Ontario official told him in a meeting this month, about the prospect of the controversial garage being built at Exhibition Place rather than Ontario Place that “it’s terribly expensive to build underground parking” and that the provincial government “doesn’t have the money for this.”
The official cited the recent rise in construction costs, Brown said, suggesting a previous estimate of $125,000 per underground stall has doubled and offering $800 million as the possible final price tag of parking to service the planned Therme spa, an expanded Budweiser Stage and a relocated Ontario Science Centre.
Asked about the meeting and $800 million estimate — much higher than previous figures, and too high according to one parking industry expert — Infrastructure Ontario said in a statement only that the Ontario government and city officials are exploring the possibility of putting the parking structure at city-owned Exhibition Place and “discussions are still at an early stage.”
When the ministry official asked if the CNEA could help with financing, Brown said he responded that his organization, a not-for-profit running Toronto’s annual three-week fair, is not in a position to do that.
The meeting followed months of rumours that Premier Doug Ford’s government suffered sticker shock at the cost of original plans for below-grade parking, said Brown, who strongly opposes an above-ground lot at the home of the Ex.
“Exhibition Place is supposed to be a meeting place, an event location, and an above-ground parkade does nothing in terms of programming various events and community activities,” he said. “It also takes away from us programmable space where we are generating revenue through things like the children’s midway or parking or use by vendors.
“Premier Ford has talked about wanting to have a legacy at Ontario Place but destroying the legacy of the place next to it doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Ford’s government originally suggested a multi-level underground lot at Ontario Place to accommodate motorists visiting a planned new spa resort and expanded Budweiser Stage concert venue. Last fall, as part of the new financial deal for Toronto,
Ford agreed to put the lot at neighbouring Exhibition Place, subject to negotiations between city and provincial representatives. Visitors to a relocated Ontario Science Centre would also use the lot.
Even with construction underway at the waterfront site, the location, size, cost and form of the parking garage remain undecided.
On Monday, Ford added a new possibility — likely the most controversial — suggesting his government might build a towering parkade at Ontario Place — something advocacy group Ontario Place for All said would be a “blight” on the treasured waterfront. Ford cited the costs of building underground, while also suggesting it might be built on the city site on the other side of Lake Shore Boulevard West.
Under terms of Therme’s 95-year lease and development deal, the province must provide parking within 650 metres of the spa resort’s entrance.
The CNEA, a key Exhibition Place tenant, has long proposed building underground for parking, but also space to do marshalling and back-of-house activities to support major events, such as the tech-focused Collision trade show, held on the surface above. One version of the CNEA proposal ends at Lake Shore Boulevard, while another goes under the road to link with Ontario Place, giving motorists a weather-shielded way to park at Exhibition Place and get to the new attractions on Ontario Place’s West Island.
City and provincial officials are just starting to negotiate what a garage at Exhibition Place would look like. The city’s guiding principles, as decided by the Exhibition Place board chaired by Deputy Mayor Ausma Malik, state that the parking solution must “be completely underground to ensure highest and best use of land.”
In a statement Tuesday, Malik said the province must front not only construction costs if it is built at Exhibition Place but also “long-term costs such as the impact on Exhibition Place and CNE operations.”
Brown said he hopes the city sticks to its opposition to an above-ground structure. “One question is whether the city is really willing to stick to foundational principles or was that a statement to appease the community,” he said. “We’ll continue to push.”
Malik told the Star on Thursday that the Exhibition Place board knows there is a “viable underground option.
“If the province values investments in our waterfront, they won’t build a massive above-ground parking lot on it,” she said. Below-grade parking will “enhance visitor experience, and improve public realm and programmable space.”
Jeremiah Vanderlaan, a Guelph-based engineer who helps build parkades, called the $800 million estimated cost of building underground near the lake way too high. Even on landfill with a high water table due to the lake, stalls should not cost more than $100,000 to build, said Vanderlaan.
But he also argues that building above ground at Ontario Place or Exhibition Place would give visitors a better user experience at a fraction of the cost. His company, Kiwi Newton, wrote a blog explaining how a 2,700-spot above-ground parkade could be built for Ontario Place for only $81 million.
It would be brighter, safer and less “dark and dingy” than underground garages, he said. An above-ground parkade would block views but its appearance could be improved with solar panels, greenery and other features, Vanderlaan added.
“I understand the underground argument, out of sight, out of mind, but what are they willing to pay for that?”
Province pushing for above ground garage at Ontario Place due to cost, says head of CNE
The CEO of the CNE said he was told by the province that an underground parking garage could cost $800 million.
July 26, 2024
The ministry in charge of Ontario Place redevelopment seems determined to build a new parking lot for spa customers and other visitors above ground, citing potentially massive costs of burying it near Lake Ontario, says the head of the agency that runs the Ex.
Darrell Brown, CEO of the Canadian National Exhibition Association (CNEA), said a senior Infrastructure Ontario official told him in a meeting this month, about the prospect of the controversial garage being built at Exhibition Place rather than Ontario Place that “it’s terribly expensive to build underground parking” and that the provincial government “doesn’t have the money for this.”
The official cited the recent rise in construction costs, Brown said, suggesting a previous estimate of $125,000 per underground stall has doubled and offering $800 million as the possible final price tag of parking to service the planned Therme spa, an expanded Budweiser Stage and a relocated Ontario Science Centre.
Asked about the meeting and $800 million estimate — much higher than previous figures, and too high according to one parking industry expert — Infrastructure Ontario said in a statement only that the Ontario government and city officials are exploring the possibility of putting the parking structure at city-owned Exhibition Place and “discussions are still at an early stage.”
When the ministry official asked if the CNEA could help with financing, Brown said he responded that his organization, a not-for-profit running Toronto’s annual three-week fair, is not in a position to do that.
The meeting followed months of rumours that Premier Doug Ford’s government suffered sticker shock at the cost of original plans for below-grade parking, said Brown, who strongly opposes an above-ground lot at the home of the Ex.
“Exhibition Place is supposed to be a meeting place, an event location, and an above-ground parkade does nothing in terms of programming various events and community activities,” he said. “It also takes away from us programmable space where we are generating revenue through things like the children’s midway or parking or use by vendors.
“Premier Ford has talked about wanting to have a legacy at Ontario Place but destroying the legacy of the place next to it doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Ford’s government originally suggested a multi-level underground lot at Ontario Place to accommodate motorists visiting a planned new spa resort and expanded Budweiser Stage concert venue. Last fall, as part of the new financial deal for Toronto,
Ford agreed to put the lot at neighbouring Exhibition Place, subject to negotiations between city and provincial representatives. Visitors to a relocated Ontario Science Centre would also use the lot.
Even with construction underway at the waterfront site, the location, size, cost and form of the parking garage remain undecided.
On Monday, Ford added a new possibility — likely the most controversial — suggesting his government might build a towering parkade at Ontario Place — something advocacy group Ontario Place for All said would be a “blight” on the treasured waterfront. Ford cited the costs of building underground, while also suggesting it might be built on the city site on the other side of Lake Shore Boulevard West.
Under terms of Therme’s 95-year lease and development deal, the province must provide parking within 650 metres of the spa resort’s entrance.
The CNEA, a key Exhibition Place tenant, has long proposed building underground for parking, but also space to do marshalling and back-of-house activities to support major events, such as the tech-focused Collision trade show, held on the surface above. One version of the CNEA proposal ends at Lake Shore Boulevard, while another goes under the road to link with Ontario Place, giving motorists a weather-shielded way to park at Exhibition Place and get to the new attractions on Ontario Place’s West Island.
City and provincial officials are just starting to negotiate what a garage at Exhibition Place would look like. The city’s guiding principles, as decided by the Exhibition Place board chaired by Deputy Mayor Ausma Malik, state that the parking solution must “be completely underground to ensure highest and best use of land.”
In a statement Tuesday, Malik said the province must front not only construction costs if it is built at Exhibition Place but also “long-term costs such as the impact on Exhibition Place and CNE operations.”
Brown said he hopes the city sticks to its opposition to an above-ground structure. “One question is whether the city is really willing to stick to foundational principles or was that a statement to appease the community,” he said. “We’ll continue to push.”
Malik told the Star on Thursday that the Exhibition Place board knows there is a “viable underground option.
“If the province values investments in our waterfront, they won’t build a massive above-ground parking lot on it,” she said. Below-grade parking will “enhance visitor experience, and improve public realm and programmable space.”
Jeremiah Vanderlaan, a Guelph-based engineer who helps build parkades, called the $800 million estimated cost of building underground near the lake way too high. Even on landfill with a high water table due to the lake, stalls should not cost more than $100,000 to build, said Vanderlaan.
But he also argues that building above ground at Ontario Place or Exhibition Place would give visitors a better user experience at a fraction of the cost. His company, Kiwi Newton, wrote a blog explaining how a 2,700-spot above-ground parkade could be built for Ontario Place for only $81 million.
It would be brighter, safer and less “dark and dingy” than underground garages, he said. An above-ground parkade would block views but its appearance could be improved with solar panels, greenery and other features, Vanderlaan added.
“I understand the underground argument, out of sight, out of mind, but what are they willing to pay for that?”
