La Villa Spa

Charged with "massaging to arouse"

Charged with "massaging to arouse" and prostitution.

No not in Toronto. You guys have it so great and should appreciate it! This is an example of why folks like me, from the U.S. come to Canada where there are so many more great sexworkers of all kinds, when you don't have to take he huge legal risks that providers do in the U.S., which limits the supply of honest sincere providers.

I just heard from a massage friend back in Phoenix. I had warned her of the risks but she was confident she got vibes from people and could detect a vice cop if she ever met one in (yeah sure I was thinking)...

She frantically called me, just arrested for "massaging to arouse" and prostitution. She is very holistic never does extra's just sensual massage including release and Tantra work. These busts happen all the time in the U.S. and especially in cities like Phoenix controlled by the religious right groups who influence the making of and enforcement of the various city and state criminal laws -unlike your uniform Canadian Criminal Code.

She doesn't think she ever massaged a vice cop, they just busted in and threatened the client who was on the massage table with wife finding out, etc to intimidate him into saying he expected a hand job from her (that is all she does). In other cases when they bust women, they threaten to have a providers children taken away if they don't work for the cops and go underground and get hired by an agency as an informer. They also have conducted MP raids with full riot gear busting down doors with big guns, shields and dogs just like a drug raid. Again you guys have no idea the difference here vs U.S. where healthy sexual release is such a major crime instead of going after real criminals that actually hurt people.

She will pay an attorney $2000, have to pay a fine for arousing maybe $1000 including court costs and probably be sentenced to "community service" Some judges are much harsher if your not shameful of your terrible act of giving men sexual satisfaction. She needs the attorney mainly to fight the prostitution charge - if convicted mandatory 5 days in jail (can be much worse if you get a religious right judge), another large fine and lifetime criminal record.

In the U.S. "prostitution" is very broad including anything with the purpose to sexually arouse for pay. There is no penetration or specific act needed vs in Canada bawdy law which requires certain "acts". The separate massaging to arouse charge is new and being used in addition to the usual prostitution charge in case can't convict on prostitution with mandatory jail time.

If the conservative religious element of your culture doesn't get too upset, I think having more U.S. guys coming to enjoy your sexual freedoms could help your economy and of course be great for providers getting more business. I know lots of people do come to Canada based on my extensive outspoken reporting directed to U.S. guys showing the great options in Canada not available or at high cost and risk in the U.S. I also only encourage what is legal, why risk questionable extras (especially for license bylaws), when you get it all legally at reasonable cost with outcall escorts.

Dave in Phoenix, now enjoying the legal options in Toronto again and hope to return every 3-4 months.
 
P

phil ashio

Our mp's are your mp's.Come and enjoy our Canadian hospitality anytime.Sorry to hear about your friend.:cool:
 

SilverC

Member
Aug 21, 2001
296
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16
GTA
Dave in Phoenix said:
Charged with "massaging to arouse" and prostitution.

...
In the U.S. "prostitution" is very broad including anything with the purpose to sexually arouse for pay. There is no penetration or specific act needed vs in Canada bawdy law which requires certain "acts". ....
Sorry to hear about your friend Dave. Hope she gets a good lawyer and a lenient judge.

By this definition "...anything with the purpose to sexually arouse for pay." shouldn't they be arresting and charging just about every female pop star of the last 20 years and many others in the entertainment industry?

Are they even allowed to air Brittney Spears videos in Arizona?

Simply, I agree. Let's focus our attention and resources on real criminals.

Enjoy your stay here Dave. It's always a pleasure to entertain our cousins from the south.
 

Backshotsbob

New member
Aug 20, 2001
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Toronto
BUSTED IN T.O.!!!!!

Guys,

We don't have it as good here!!! I got busted for being "found in a common bawdy house". If you take a look at the canadian law The bawdy house law hasn't been changed since 1850!!!
And it's not specific at all!!!
But my fellow hobbyists remember in Canada there are no entrapment laws. So if you ask an undercover cop who's posing as an SP she can say no when she's asked if she's a cop!!!
Other than that if you would like to see a great trial. Come to Old City Hall on Dec.4 and see what happens when the Crown takes on an MP and it's customers. I will go down as a fighter for the rights of my fellow hobbyists!!!!!!!!!
 

Megaman

Member
Aug 30, 2001
279
20
18
51
Hey backshotsbob,

That actually might be interesting to see what happens. Hope all goes well for you and you kick some coppers ass. With all the crap going on you think they would have better things to do with there time then mess around with harmless things like this. Anyway what court house is it in?

Megaman.
 
Backshotsbob

It seems that bawdy house is seldom enforced unless some other crime involved and penalties very minor compared to similar offense in the U.S. In a recent case that was appealed to the Ontario Court of Appeals, a women was found guilty of running a bawdy house, living off the avails etc and the fine was $3000. In the U.S. it would have been 10-15 yrs in prison sadly.

Also seems most bawdy charges get dropped. Like the 78 folks charged when 300 police stormed the 3 strip clubs in 1999. But then after all that all charges were dropped.

But in Canada it is so simply to avoid any legal issues..just use outcalls.

In the U.S. police can entrap. They always will say they are not cops when asked, sometimes have gotten naked and founded a provider before arresting, etc.

Silver C
Certainly agree with your views. In their great wisdom the AZ legislature proposed a no arousal in even regular bars law. It was made into quite a joke, cops looking for erections in pants of guys at the bar. It was dropped but that is how far the religious right will go to be sure since they don't beleive in sexual freedoms no one else can have sexual freedom either. Of course many of these folks are active in public out of guilt for what they do in private.
 

Backshotsbob

New member
Aug 20, 2001
21
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44
Toronto
WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE!!!!

Dave!!!

I guess I'm just gonna have to wait and see if the charges get dropped on Dec.4. I hope you're right!!!!!!
I will have to agree with Megaman. Did the cops have nothing better to do with everything going on??? Shouldn't they have been hunting down Terrorist networks they know are living here??? It was early evening on a Tuesday night!!!!
Let's get with the program here and let MP entrepreneurs do what they have to do in order for our hobbyist lifestyles to survive!!!


"Free Speech is the right to yell theatre in a crowded fire"

:D
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,031
3,876
113
Ah, the good ole US of A.

Where it is legal to sell semi automatic weapons with the full knowledge that they will be used to end human life, but owning a sex shop and selling dildos for pleasuring women is enough to get your ass thrown in jail

or where they will spend 100's of millions of dollars researching a presidential blow job, yet national health insurance is communism.

You truly live in a land of extremes.

How pathetic that in this day and age, the giving of sexual pleasure through the mere massaging of a certain body part is considered obscene.

The penis is just another body part (albeit my personal favourite). Massaging it should be no more a crime than a foot massage.

MP's get busted here in Canada too, but usually because there is more than just massages going on - drug dealing, criminal elements, etc.

My local rub and tug claims to have several cops as its clients.

I say hooray for that.

What frightens me is every once in a while you will get some unknown municipal politician who uses the old sex sells notion to get his name in print.

In order to do that, he or she will start their own personal crusade against the sex industry.

Witness judy sgro (spelling) and her late great john school.

I always figure that everything in a man's life is about sex, and lets face it, if you don't have any money, you aren't getting any sex anyway anyhow. Sex and money have gone hand in hand since the beginning of time.

We do have it good here in toronto. There are lots of MPs and SPs and generally they are left alone. The women here tend to be beautiful and reasonably priced. (Go to vegas and see the low quality out there at REDICULOUS prices. Starting at 500 US, and everything, i mean everything is an extra.

No wonder dave makes his way up here. It's like golfing in japan, it's cheaper to buy a plane ticket from Tokyo to California and golf in Ca. than to golf in Tokyo

Likewise, it's cheaper and easier to fly to toronto for better quality than to go to vegas.

The US will never change in your life time dave, so just bring all your friends to toronto.

And by the way, you can pick up a globe and mail which has a wall street journal excerpt section, not to mention is a fine paper for financial analysis in its own way.

if you want a high spec stock with the potential to make you millions, or more likely go broke, pick wilan - 4th generation wireless patent holders. ticker win on the tse. Currently trading around 2 bucks, but if all goes according to plan, look for 200 a share.

cheers
 

Gyaos

BOBA FETT
Aug 17, 2001
6,172
0
0
Heaven, definately Heaven
Bangkok, Bangkok, Bangkok!

If there is ever a pleasurable, sexually safe place....that is it (mainly if you like Asian girls, like I do). But I will say, if I may, I'm totally against any and all USA laws about Prostitution. It should be legal work and considered a total male health issue (i.e.: If I need to get an HJ, I can go to an MP or pick up a girl and get one....simple).

Having travelled all over the world, I just notice when I arrive on US territory, many US sub-psycologically scared people from their own laws and customs. I see a complete attitude change from a good country representation in countries outside the US from non-Americans, to a rude, bitchy, A*hole attitude as a representation of the US. I don't get kindness, I get a thwarted kindness that is phoney. These people don't get laid (or are afraid too), are totally frustrated, panzies, many girls don't F, don't know how to give HJs, are bitchy, believe in a religion they know is fake, are abused by big corporations that seize people's freedom to earn good wages and get health insurance....etc. Many are also mind-manipulated by an illegal US monopoly media that purposely scares their viewers to watch, just to make money.....breaking down their "common sense" factor.

I guess it may be like that everywhere.....but in the US, one cannot get sex as an addition. So I save, leave the US, get sex, watch the BBC come back to do it again. :)
But when in the US, I'm no where to be seen. Then there's the West Coast....that's a little better......closer to Asia, Hawaii, and Vancouver. Toronto isn't too far either....Love it there. Just a rant!

Gyaos.
 

MPLAW

New member
Oct 29, 2001
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To begin with. Entrapment laws do exist in canada. They do differ from the U.S. definition. In canada Entrapment is defined as "State's use of an agent to trick, entice, or urge someone to commit an offence who would ordinarilly not commit the offence". The defence is primarilly used in the Tobacco control act cases (Variety/Convenience stores selling cigarettes to minors, etc.). You can look up the cases of R. vs. Sharpe, and R. vs. mack from the Supreme court of canada. They're the leading cases on entrapment.

Now to be charged with being found within a common bawdy house (Yes its spelled bawdy) is still a mens rea offence meaning you had to have had knowledge that you were in such a place. The prosecution is in a difficult position in the absence of statements by accused because when you're in your room, you don't know whats going on in the other part of the spa and accordingly how do you have knowledge if you can't see whats goig on. Now there are two tests, The known test, and the ought to have known test. Thats where a statement like "Oh come on...it was just a hand job." could sink you. Law is like a game of chess. Just like I couldn't teach you chess in one small message, I can't teach law that way either. But if you send me specific questions I'll do my best to answer them.
 
MPLAW

MPLAW, thanks for your good wisdom

Please see my post under thread "Is There Any Cameras In The Rooms?" regarding my question and comments on the Edomonton Police site statement that seems to indicate may not be a communications problem in MP and for same reason would be less likely to be a bawdy problem it would seem.

That may be why so few bawdy charges stick and even if they do the criminal penalities are very mild, especially compared to the U.S.
 
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