cause of blackout

[Questor]

Award winning journalist Greg Palast blames white house deregulation of electricity markets and corporate greed for the blackout.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/081603B.shtml

Of course, my personal view is that the blame may go to Dubya for the power failure in the US, but the provincial government is responsible for electrical generation and transmission here in Ontario. They have failed to make the proper investments in infrastructure for close to 10 years now. Opponents of deregulation and privatization have been predicting blackouts for quite some time. In fact there was an article in the Star on July 15 predicting just that. It was only a matter of time before all the conditions led to what happened on Thursday.

 

[HornyTime]

I voted Tory last two elections. But I am so bothered by the hydro price cap, the proposed property tax rebate for seniors, and Eves handing out cash to everyone who speaks these days I really don't want to vote for him.

So the choices seem to be:
Socialist NDP - no chance of that
Waffling Liberal unknown - hmm
Waffling Tory disaster - hmm

 

[Questor]

Re: Ontario's folly

I would have to agree that the Ontario provincial government failed in preventing this blackout but not in the way most are crying about it. If Ernie had shown balls and told Ontario that he refused to roll back the increasing price (also known as the REAL price) of electricity, there would have been a forced conservation across the board or the financial means to reinvest in the system.

Agreed Pallydin. That silly subsidized price has got to go. Its costing us all because we all pay in the end. But market prices and smart metering systems are only part of the answer. Aggressive advertising and public education to promote voluntary conservation is also necessary, as is investment in alternative power sources.

Personally, I think the price freeze is a huge mistake and the Tories would do well to rewrite that piece of crap legislation into something that helps all Ontarians...In my opinion, such a move could likely win the Tories the next election hands down, especially sinbce nobody *wants* to vote for Weasel-face McGuinty anyways.

Ahhhh....not so sure about that one, although with luck you are right that people will smarten up and realize the situation. But the Tories subsidized the price of electricity because they hoped they could buy the next election with our own money. Now lets hope they were wrong. Linwood Barclay writes an interesting article about that in the Saturday Star. Sorry, I can't post the link because the Star website seems to be down temporarily. But to quote, "...we get leaders who say: 'If elected, I promise to give everyone a donut.' And we, as a populace, say: 'Sprinkle or Boston cream?'

 

[ice_dog]

Too much Political Over Tones.

The shortage in power supply in Ontario is real. However, the cause of blackout is from Akron, Ohio- transmission lines in Ohio were tripped, about an hour before the blackout. Of course, its neighbours such as Michigan, were affected. Ontario's transmission system is interconnected with Michigan, New York,etc ,and was affected as well. Apparently, the circuit brakers surrounding the Cleveland area failed to open in time to isolate the fault, and the cascade effects followed.

It is easy to blame the goverment, but different political parties have different political agendas and different priorities. Back in 1988, David Peterson signed a deal with Manitoba which will suppy Power up to 1000 MW (not sure about the figure)to Ontario. When Bob Rae took over in the early 90's, Ontario went into recession, and the NDP had different priorites . They cancelled the deal, a deal which allowed Ontarians to buy power from Manitoba at 1989 price. This was documentd in the Star about a month ago.

One of these days, someone will blame the power shortage on immigrants, or even the AMPs.

Building Generartion Facilities is out of the question in this days of age. The only sensible solution is conservation, or alternative energy which may not be as reliable.

Here is the story from Cleveland.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=US&cat=Northeast_Blackout

 

[Sackonuts]

Here's what I look forward to...

When will somebody blame the power outage on our own electricity lavish lifestyle? I don't want to sound like a tree hugger here but we have been spoiled by cheap seemingly endless amounts of electricity for far too long.

Blaming the government for not being able to keep up with our own excesses seems misguided.

 

[ice_dog]

Re: Here's what I look forward to...

When will somebody blame the power outage on our own electricity lavish lifestyle? I don't want to sound like a tree hugger here but we have been spoiled by cheap seemingly endless amounts of electricity for far too long.

Blaming the government for not being able to keep up with our own excesses seems misguided.

A valid point

 

[Questor]

Sackonuts: right on. Of course our own lavish lifestyle is at the root of the power blackout. But isn`t it the government`s job to show leadership on the question of conservation, instead of encouraging more consumption by subsidizing prices for wasteful consumers?

Ice-dog: yes apparently the blackout began in Cleveland. But it seems to me that our government is responsible for putting in the correct kind of transmission buffers at the border so that this sort of thing does not happen. Quebec overhauled its system after the ice storm a few years back and was spared the blackout this time. And by the way, one of our illustrious members has already blamed the immigrants for the blackout, along with those wicked environmentals. That so few other members called him on it reflects very badly on the mentality of the majority of posters here. <flame away boys>

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34180&perpage=9&pagenumber=12

 

[ice_dog]

Using PC and or Internet does not require that much power.

Your Air Conditioning does. Your SUV generates lots of pollution which contribute to Smog and green house effects, among which the high temperture we are experiencing, not to mention taking up lots of road space,

 

[ice_dog]

By now, it is quite clear that the cause of Black Out 2003 is from Akron, Ohio, a jurisdiction under First Energy, which trades in NYSE under the symbol FE. I would short-sell this one first thing Monday morning...lol..the Dog loves to gamble.

Just what is this `buffer` you are talking about ? You are either connected to your neighbours or you are dis-connected with them. The is no such thing as a `buffer` in Power System Engineering.

When transmision lines are tripped, the area should be isolated by openning the circuit breakers. Failure to do so will casue the effect to cascade. Ontario`s power system is inter-connected with New Yrok, Michigan...etc to faciliatate the exchange of power. Back in 1995, the then Ontario Hydrio made tons of money from selling power to the U.S. This time, Ontario got burned by a screw-up from Ohio. Life is a trade off.


As for Quebec, they came out okay this time because they are on a different network, not because of any upgrade they might have. Actually, I heard that they have only one transmission line coming out of the James Bay Dam. In the article in the Star, about a month ago, on the topic of energy shortage in Ontario, a point was raised about buying power from Quebec. The roadblock here is a tansmission line needs to be built beween say James Bay and the Ontario Power grid. The question is who is going to pay for it.


As for blaming immigrants for blackout, that was supposed to be a sarcastic joke, but you never know, some jerks may actually believe that.

Ice-dog: yes apparently the blackout began in Cleveland. But it seems to me that our government is responsible for putting in the correct kind of transmission buffers at the border so that this sort of thing does not happen. Quebec overhauled its system after the ice storm a few years back and was spared the blackout this time. And by the way, one of our illustrious members has already blamed the immigrants for the blackout, along with those wicked environmentals. That so few other members called him on it reflects very badly on the mentality of the majority of posters here. <flame away boys>

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34180&perpage=9&pagenumber=12

 

[ice_dog]

Re: Ontario's folly

I would have to agree that the Ontario provincial government failed in preventing this blackout but not in the way most are crying about it. If Ernie had shown balls and told Ontario that he refused to roll back the increasing price (also known as the REAL price) of electricity, there would have been a forced conservation across the board or the financial means to reinvest in the system.
.......
My two cents....

PAL

To believe that the Ontario Government could have done something to prevent this blackout is false.


But your point that Ernie Eve's decision to roll back the increased price of electricity is a political one which made Ontarians complacent about energy conservation, is valid.