Catholic Church Hypocracy

[train]

Ok , about 10 months ago I got into an argument with Goober on the evils of organized religion and more specifically those that run them . Predictably it went nowhere as people seem to be galvanized to one side or the other and I vowed not to comment on religion again . As with many priests , I am about to break those vows .

Specifically what has me seeing red ( cardinal red ? ) again are the recent newspaper articles quoting a Calgary Bishop and Bishop Jean-Louis Plouffe and their opinions concerning same sex marriages . I mean if anyone should have some sympathy it would be a guy named Plouffe .

In yet another fit of hypocracy the catholic church has officially condemed same sex marriages . Why hypocritical you say ? Well consider their past record with homosexuality and pedophilia amongst their own members . For many years it was perfectly ok to be a gay pedophile in the church ....hey if you were caught we'll just transfer you to where no one will recignize you and set you up with a brand new set of alter boys .

When it all comes out we will then not admit any wrong doing until the courts force us to and won't offer any apologies or compensation to victims until forced to by huge drop-offs in our collection plates .

Their inaction in all these matters was a silent condoning of the action of these dispicable clerics . What kind of arrogant organization then turns around and threatens the leaders of a government in a country with , say a 25 % catholic population , with " burning in hell " ? You would think they would just want to keep their heads down .

Fortunately most catholics are smart enough just to ignore the church on matters of sex ie. birth control , sex outside of marriage etc . . At what point do these idiots become totally redundant ?

So ends my rant . I am neither gay or catholic ( protestant , not practicing and I have been married to a wonderful lady who was catholic ) .

 

[Cardinal Fang]

The church should get its own house in order before offering their so called advice to others....

 

[CyberGoth]

dear pope, this aint the 14th century anymore....

I'll take the pope seriously when he does something about the pedophile priests...

 

[Mr. Downtown]

If these assholes want to enter the politics of public policy, then I say tax the fuckers.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

After a while you become immune to the hypocrisy that is spewed by this totally male dominated faith. The winds of change never actually reach Rome.

 

[DenWa]

Don't think for a second that the Catholic Church condones homosexuality or pedaphilia and considers it "perfectly ok". The way they handled the behavior of the offending priests was morally, ethically, and criminally wrong - but by no means can a correlation be made that that behavior was ok by the church.

This is a huge and complicated situation, made worse by the fact that a minority priests have now made it nearly impossible for the public to trust any priests. But as for the idea of homosexual marriage - well...we're a lot more openminded around here than a lot of "normal" people, and especially church folk. Yes, the church looks the other way with birth control, but the last time I checked my church does not condone sex outside marriage at all. You have to remember, no matter what our personal beliefs, homosexuality is considered a sin to the Catholic church, and it is backed up with biblical text and historical practice. This isn't like changing outdated laws and adjusting to the times. Yes, the church has done that on some issues, but they are only going to deviate so far from the foundations of the church. I guess my point is, I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by this decision by the church. We can't even get our government to lighten up on their repressive moral views - how can we realistically expect the church to. Remember who they ultimately think they're answering to.

DW

 

[sara@select]

Church and state should remain as two separate entities and the church should not condemn a government decision to give equality.
As someone raised as a Catholic I believe the Catholic church should remember the phrase, lest not judge lest ye be judged! I think the concept of religion is nice until man sticks his hand in it!

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Thoughts along the same lines...

My thoughts were along the same line when I read the paper this morning. Clean up your own back yard first you SOBs I thought. You see... I was there... so I seen first hand what happened back in those days when complaints from kids being molested went unheard. And that is exactly what happened. You see I went to an all boys RC boarding school for high school. The Christian Brothers ran it. Over the three years I was there at least 1/2 doz boys were sent home for making unfounded, malicious accusations about being molested or mistreated. All us boys were very aware of what was going on. However we were all told to shut up... that we were full of shit, that we had over active imaginations and ulterior motives... etc. To be fair though... we were not only told this by the priests themselves, we were told this by the police, and some even by their own parents. Impossible they would say... your talking about priests... how dare you say such things. I.E. Now that you got molested... we are going to punish you for talking about it. I was never molested myself… but talked at length a couple times with someone who was. I was physically abused with a leather belt and with a yard stick on the bare buttocks for simple infractions like being five mins late for class. I honestly think the priest who melted out this punishment got a real thrill from it. He would use almost any trivial excuse to strap someone. Almost every day he had a line up of boys outside his office waiting to get the strap. If you were in the classroom across the hall from his office when this was going on the teacher had to close the door because you could hear the slapping sound as the belt or yardstick would spank on the poor recipients bare ass. From everything I have seen, experienced, heard and read… I honestly believe that all the grown men in my age bracket (born in ’55) that are coming out only now with their stories now… are only the tip of the ice burg. I know it’s not all and even not a majority of priest etc who committed these acts… but the church itself did cover it up in more places then you know. We only know about the ones that made big headlines. The RC church gets no respect from me… never has and never will.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

But there are many more where they came from red. Just look at all those men in the RED ROBES behind him.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

Naah....

Much too progressive a thought for this Church. gentlemen.

 

[CyberGoth]

gee, wasnt it pope innocent 2 who helped hitler??? i could be wrong.... i think there as a shallow appology about it recently I'm feeling too lazy to do a google search on it.

 

[DenWa]

It takes a certain kind of guy to be willing to live a a life of celibacy. The catholic church could make a huge difference by allowing priests to marry. It would attract more people to the priesthood, and it would eliminate the frustration that could tempt otherwise good men.

As for the church keeping their nose out of politics...well, religion has always been political. Some of the bloodiest wars in history have been in the name of God. Look at the middle east. That is all about religion. A man who is willing to die, and kill, for his God is a scary thing.

DW

 

[CyberGoth]

way too scary for me...

 

[Mr. Downtown]

I think everyone is missing a very important point. The biggest issue, to me, is not what the those catholics think about same sex marriage, its all about the fact that a church official is threatening a publicly elected representative if he proceeds with the party's policy on a particular manner. Since when does the fucking church think it has the right to get involved with politics. The whole works of them can go to hell.

 

[CyberGoth]

your church makes me [BLEEP] into the vertiginous abyss!

last time they mixed politics and religion, they burned people like us at the stake! why do some politicians remind me of the darwin awards????

 

[The Doctor]

Politics before religion???

I have to agree with DenWa in that the Church does not condone pedophilia and that their handleing of the situation was reprehensible. Although individual interpretaions of Church teachings exist, for the most part know what you are getting with the collective Catholic church.

Marriage is a sacrament that is received by a man and a woman for the purpose of procreation. It is that simple and therefore there is not real hipocrisy in the statement made by cardinal Plouffe and supported by the Pope. I in no way believe that the Pope is infalable (JP II is not bad but there are many examples of falability by residents of the Vatican), but when it comes right down to it, the views on same-sex marriages are very clear and just because Canada and possibly other countries are considering legalization does not mean that the church needs to reconsider its position on the matter.

The real question is do we check our religion at the ballot box?..or do we check our religion at the door to the public office? Our religious beliefs and the teachings of the church play an integral role in forming our belief system and how we view what is true, right and moral. One thing I know, being raised Catholic, (and of course attending a private, all boys school) is that if you are a true Catholic, then you have tollerance and acceptance for things that are different. That's not to be interpreted as condoning certain activities, particularly by weak individuals within the church.

If there is hypocracy it is not with the church it is with the so-called devout Catholic MP's who support this bill (you know who you are, Paul Martin). I believe that in this diverse multi-cultural country we live in, this bill probably is reasonable and adresses societal needs rather than religious beliefs. Do politics come before the church? Personally I think not. Because if they do then you are a true politician and your beliefs and actions will be adjusted to suit whatever situation or viewpoint that will continue your career as a politician...serve the people and/or serve yourself? How can we ever support someone as an elected public servant who will go against a belief system that supposedly is the foundation for the person they claim to be. MP's must stop fence sitting...you're either Catholic and support the views of the church or you are a politician. Otherwise as the electorate, how can we realistically support our political leaders.

I personally am not a public servant and am therefore able to take a more progressive approach to my life. Although many would say that this "hobby" and being a "hobbyist" does not follw the teachings of the church, I recall that even Jesus befriended a known SP, Mary Magdalen I believe but don't quote me because I don't have my bible handy (I'm sure i'm going straight to hell if I'm wrong on that one!). So by being a hobbyist, in effect I am doing God's work...and then some.

There is not doubt in my mind that Jean Chretien and Paul Martin will burn in hell and suffer eternal damnation but it is debatable whether it will be a result of passing the same sex marriage bill.

Tollerance and acceptance of those and that which is different is paramount in this situation.

Doc

(I thought rule number 1 was never discuss politics, religion and sports at a bar or in mixed company?

 

[WineGuy]

It's not only the Catholic church more like most churches

It is not only the Catholic Church that is up in arms over same sex marrages, In fact there is now a grassroots movement amoung the prostestant, catholic and muslum churches to try and get the supreme court to challenge the recognition of same sex unions.

 

[HornyTime]

I'm glad the government seems to be ignoring them. The Catholic Church seems to be out to lunch, and I think most Canadians feel that way. As a non-catholic I am glad they aren't influencing are government on this one; they should just go back to their warped world where women can't be priests - these guys live in the dark ages.

 

[twinkle]

IMO what upsets me the most about this issue and the RC (as an ex RC) is they....
ARE NOT SEEING THE FOREST FOR THE TREES.

What upsets me the most about the the RC (and BTW G. Bush) 'coming out' and being so OUTSPOKEN and VOCAL and QUICK to speak out about their condemnation about same sex marriage is....................................................................................... they "SHOULD" have been so OUTSPOKEN and VOCAL and QUICK to speak out about and against the KNOWN child sex abuse in their own damn midst. But no they kept their mouths shut, accused the victims of lying, had their high price lawyers intimadate the victims and their families, kept it quite and hush hush to its parisheners and society in general, guietly moved these robbed pedophile priests to other parishes to abuse more children.

Well if the RC thinks gays and those who support gay marriages are going to hell......... I am convinced (and it is biblical) that these hypocritical evil slim bucket pedophile priests and their 'protectors' and those that turned a blind eye....... will have a special spot at the front of the line at the gates of hell!!!!!!!

IMO May all those priests who abused innocent, vulnerable, children and all the other priests who have 'blood on their hands' because they helped to cover up and protect these cloaked child abusers, and did not care about the safety and wellbeing of children.............. BURN IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMEN

 

[The Doctor]

Forest for the Trees?

This furor is a result of the Churches position on same-sex marriages...not their past track record in dealing with the unthinkable behaviour of a few individuals who abused their position and trust to take advantage of innocent children. And I agree they have a spot at the front of the line at the gates to hell.

However the Churches views on Marriage as a sacrament are clearly stated and have no changed. As well they have been simlarly vocal regarding other world and social issues that affect us today.

I beleieve that the Catholic church is a long way from doing what is right in regards to the priests and the abused children, however, the actions of a few sick priests do not change the beliefs of the collective Catholic faith.