Canadian commander in Afgha. Facing 40 years for extra-marital sex

[Nickelodeon]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...an-commander-faces-trial-in-liaison-case?bn=1

WTF, these are pretty harsh rules for getting car with your pecker out of your pants.

He probably won't get the max, but military justice looks tough.

 

[BigBlueBobby]

The sentences aren't for charges stemming from fucking around, but for obstruction of justice. Commit a crime and you go to court for your slap on the wrist. Defy a judge, go to jail.

 

[Hangman]

Failure to obey a lawful command
Uttering a false document
Abuse of authority
Conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline

That's what charges I can think of that would be applicable, I'm sure the JAG can think of more.

 

[Aardvark154]

Two counts of conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline and four counts of obstructing justice.

As per usual it often is not the crime you first committed, but the further crimes committed in the attempt to cover-up the first crime.

Further, I'm rather supprised that the CAF either does not have a fraternization charge as the British and U.S. Armed forces do or has chosen not to charge such.

 

[landscaper]

good order and conduct would likely get him fined and removed fromt the service, the obstructiong justice charges if proven are a go to jail do not pass go do not collect 200.00

 

[Rockslinger]

My company has a "no hugging" policy. Violation of that policy is subject to punishment, up to and including termination without notice or severance pay. If the hugging is considered an assault then the police and lawyers will be called immediately.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Gee, I wonder if this guy will get more prison time than the murdering panty wearing colonel?

 

[Aardvark154]

WTF, these are pretty harsh rules for getting car with your pecker out of your pants.

Lets see he's a Brigadier-General (OF-6), she's a Master Corporal (OR-4), see a bit of a power discrepancy? Think any other Master Corporals who are not sleeping with the Commanding General might?

 

[mandrill]

Lets see he's a Brigadier-General (OF-6), she's a Master Corporal (OR-4), see a bit of a power discrepancy? Think any other Master Corporals who are not sleeping with the Commanding General might?

Same thing occurred to me, counsellor.

 

[CapitalGuy]

Lets see he's a Brigadier-General (OF-6), she's a Master Corporal (OR-4), see a bit of a power discrepancy? Think any other Master Corporals who are not sleeping with the Commanding General might?

She is also an adult who is capable of making her own decisions. As a Master Corporal she is also a leader and has a responsibility to lead by example and follow orders. The work environment in the CF is quite harassment-averse; if she felt in any way unduly pressured, she had alllll the power of the system behind her, BGen or not. I have no doubt that this was a mutually-desirable relationship and that the young lady, a leader of men, deserves whatever punishment she receives.

 

[Aardvark154]

She is also an adult who is capable of making her own decisions. As a Master Corporal she is also a leader and has a responsibility to lead by example and follow orders. The work environment in the CF is quite harassment-averse; if she felt in any way unduly pressured, she had alllll the power of the system behind her, BGen or not. I have no doubt that this was a mutually-desirable relationship and that the young lady, a leader of men, deserves whatever punishment she receives.

Yes, IF it was entirely consensual she deserves discipline; however, he was a senior officer she had just reached the bottom rung of being an NCO. If nothing else such a relationship gave the impression to everyone else in the chain of command that there was favoritism even if that was not actually the case. And there is certainly every impression that coersion could have been present.

 

[Aardvark154]

This is out of control. WAY OUT OF CONTROL.

Even the thought of locking this guy up for having an affair is just assinine. If he gets locked up for anything Canada can go to hell.

There is no crime here - despite what some piece of policy said.

So let's leave aside the significant issue of being put in harm’s way.

You or a family member work for Widgets Are Us. You feel that you have all the qualifications to be promoted into the position that is advertised, but you are not, the same thing happens again a few months later, then you find out one of your co-workers is sleeping with the "Big-Boss". Think there just might be some turmoil at Widgets Are Us, that things are not going to run smoothly?

 

[CapitalGuy]

Ya I can see how it looks that way, but the guy is smart enough to have backed off at the first hint of her being uncomfortable or hesitant. He had soooo much to risk, I can't see him putting his neck out by forcing a girl against her will, even subtly. If he made a pass and she rejected it, he would have moved on. He is unlikely to have risked his career and marriage for anything other than a sure thing. I imagine he would also have gone to amazing lengths to try and cover his tracks and be discrete - although he obviously failed miserably at that!!!!

My guess remains that she was keen on banging the General, a willing participant. Either for fun and later bragging rights, or because she legitimately fell for him. Maybe she even had dreams of one day separating him from his wife. Who knows. Well, we all will, once the court martial transcripts are released!!

 

[Aardvark154]

Ya I can see how it looks that way, but the guy is smart enough. . . .

There but for the Grace of God. . . the problem is for whatever reason and loneliness may have been part of it, he wasn't thinking - and then he tried to cover it up, talking to witnesses etc. . .

 

[Hangman]

And this is a crime? And even if it were a crime is one that threatens jail?
Sleeping with the boss happens alot. Promotion by relationship happens even more.

Who was put in harm's way?

You fail to see the point. Under the National Defence Act, CEFCOM policy and BGen Menard's own Theater Standing Orders, his acts were illegal, as were Langlois'. There was no direct harm to anyone, but that's not the sole criterion in determining if an illegal act occurred. Both of them knew what they were doing and the risks to their careers.

This isn't some normal office environment, it's an operational theatre. Higher standards apply. There are huge morale issues, force protection/generation issues (e.g. if she gets pregnant, she has to be repatriated and a new replacement generated and sent into theater - there's a few extra thousand just in travel expenses) and leadership issues.

I was there when all this went down - it was incredibly embarrassing having our Task Force Commander replaced over something like this. The Brits and Yanks had a field day with the jokes. Menard embarrassed us all.

 

[Lovemsog]

My company has a "no hugging" policy. Violation of that policy is subject to punishment, up to and including termination without notice or severance pay. If the hugging is considered an assault then the police and lawyers will be called immediately.

Same rules for girls working at Hooters

 

[Aardvark154]

Thanks for your input. So I spun out to the web . . . . Despite the fact that I think the Afghan war is a pile of political manure

Well I suppose to your mind your political views justify the sarcasm to someone who has actually served there and tries to explain to you the realities of the situation.

 

[CRX8]

As long as women are allowed in the army this situation will repeat itself. It's frivolous.

 

[Hangman]

The perceived realities of the situation are one thing, jail is quite another. My opinion is about the prospect of jail, despite the shenanigans of Afghanistan.

I'll agree that jail is a bit excessive. I imagine that after Semrau and Williams there's a real push in the Provost Marshall and JAG to be 'tough on crime'.