Canada will align policy on 'vaccine passports' with international allies: Trudeau
- Thread starter mandrill
- Start date
People are confusing have a vaccine with providing protection to the general population. It only protects the person vaccinated.
So a person with a Covid passport can transmit Covid from abroad (e.g. Brazil, India, UK) upon arriving in Canada.
Likewise a Canadian can travel to Europe or Asia and be fully vaccinated and still infect other people.
The only benefit for the host country is that the need to provide medical care for that traveler is reduced.
So a person with a Covid passport can transmit Covid from abroad (e.g. Brazil, India, UK) upon arriving in Canada.
Likewise a Canadian can travel to Europe or Asia and be fully vaccinated and still infect other people.
The only benefit for the host country is that the need to provide medical care for that traveler is reduced.
Where do you get your information from?
The whole point of a vaccine is to prevent (or significantly reduce) the chances of getting infected. For the small number who do get infected, id does reduce the severity of the infection and the chances of spreading it. If you are not infected, you can not transmit the virus.
But to be safe, a vaccine passport and a negative test would make pretty good assurances.
Not really. Protection is not 100% yet the fact remains, with or without a vaccine anyone can transmit Covid. It is only when the vast majority of people are not at risk of being infected that society can really open up. Some countries chose to really shut the down borders on the virus. Turdeau kept the door open for any and all via the airports from Wuhan, from Iran, from India etc. They keep saying only 2% of current cases come from airports, yet 100% of all the infected people in Canada started with someone from abroad if you go to the source.
That argument for not closing airports is like saying the match that started a fire in only one room has nothing to do with a building burning down. The fact that the next room also caught on fire has nothing to do with the original match. It is asinine thinking on the part of the Federal government.
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You are correct in saying that a vaccine can prevent or reduce the chance of becoming seriously ill. But it does not prevent infection.
Think of it this way, if you have no symptoms because the vaccine has helped your immune system that does not prevent the virus from still being present and from you transmitting to someone who is not vaccinated. You may have a false sense of security and then unwittingly infect other people.
As far as negative tests, India has shown that many passengers who were infected still got on airplanes to Canada. Simply put, they were gaming the system and the controls in some countries are much less stringent than here. The federal government had no choice but to impose a travel ban from India.
You are wrong because efficacy means exactly what you claim the vaccine cannot do!
What does vaccine efficacy mean?
Vaccine efficacy measures the percentage reduction of a disease in a clinical trial. Vaccine effectiveness measures how well a vaccine works in the real world.
www.medicalnewstoday.com
This is called vaccine efficacyTrusted Source. For example, Pfizer/BioNTech reported an efficacy of 95% for the COVID-19 vaccine. This means a 95% reduction in new cases of the disease in the vaccine group compared with the placebo group.
In fact, the vaccines do quite effectively prevent transmitting the disease, are they 100% no but they are very good at preventing one getting infected thus not being able to transmit.
Worst flu I ever caught was on a flight from Pearson to Winnipeg. Woman behind me wouldn't stop coughing. (You could hear the phlegm bouncing around her throat. The next day, after the flight, I was sicker than I have ever been. Breathing in the cabin air during a flight has to be one of the most unhealthy public forms of transport. Cruise ships are probably the worst.
I think we are still a long way off thinking about travel and covid passports. But it's something to think about. Mind you travel passports will be temporary until we get heard immunity around the world and that could be 5-10 years.
With more deadly covid VOC circulating widely, & possibly even worse ones soon to cum, i doubt many people will be flying internationally this year. It may be years, if ever, before air travel returns to normal (or a new safer normal).
Yup! As much as I love to travel I will not be booking a nice tropical vacay for a while.
And that is exactly the point I'm making. Vaccinated people are significantly lower risk to catch and spread covid and that's why countries are looking at vaccine passports.
Actually I am correct.You are wrong because efficacy means exactly what you claim the vaccine cannot do!
What does vaccine efficacy mean?
Vaccine efficacy measures the percentage reduction of a disease in a clinical trial. Vaccine effectiveness measures how well a vaccine works in the real world.
This is called vaccine efficacyTrusted Source. For example, Pfizer/BioNTech reported an efficacy of 95% for the COVID-19 vaccine. This means a 95% reduction in new cases of the disease in the vaccine group compared with the placebo group.
In fact, the vaccines do quite effectively prevent transmitting the disease, are they 100% no but they are very good at preventing one getting infected thus not being able to transmit.
I said that "anyone can with or without a vaccine can transmit Covid". I did not say "everyone". You yourself acknowledge that 5% or more of Pfizer reported failed efficacy. So that means 1 out of 20 could still spread Covid if vaccinated. That could be "anyone". No one knows who is in that 5%.
Then there is the reliability of efficacy #s. Pfizer was tested before the variants appeared so their #s are better than AZ. The real # today could be 90% no one knows.
So until everyone is vaccinated or immune from Covid there will always be some risk in traveling and the travelers are still the spreaders.
100% of Covid cases in Canada started with foreign travelers.
The way you've stated it in this post I will agree. This is why Dr. Fauci still prefers folks to keep the masking and social distancing going until cases are down substantially. Vaccines, except for the Chinese version are doing a great job but yes, they are not 100% and of course, you never know who falls in the small 5 to 10% failure window.
Canada has no legal basis to issue vaccine passports
Restrictions in some provinces (eg Quebec) show that even IF you CONSENT to a vaccine passport you still can not use it
Where in that document does it say there is no legal basis for a vaccine passport?Canada has no legal basis to issue vaccine passports
Restrictions in some provinces (eg Quebec) show that even IF you CONSENT to a vaccine passport you still can not use it
The same way they believed lockdowns were against the Charter Rights and Freedom yet, we are in, hmmmm, a lockdown. I haven't seen any courts force open anything but I'm sure TJ can share with us if I'm incorrect.
WE ARE ALL ESSENTIAL, END THE LOCKDOWNS!!!! hmmmm, why is nobody listening???
Simpler than that in this case.
Tee Jay linked to the document in this context.
Tee Jay implies, therefore, that the document supports his view.
Tee Jay should, therefore, be able to point to the part of the document that he feels supports his view.
