Can you increase IQ?

[HungSowel]

It turns out that the abstract thinking required to solve the shape analysis and logic questions you mentioned is highly correlated with being an Elon Musk versus an average joe.

When you look at musk you see what you think is rare, high IQ. What I see that is rare is his risk appetite more specifically his ability to think calmly while taking huge risks, to me that is much more rare than High IQ. That is something that is learned, learned through countless failures. I am sure Elon has a long track record of failures, it is just that he does not talk about it.

You probably see the world as deterministic, that the past is the sole predictor of the future, you probably believe in destiny. I see the world as pobabilities, and as such; the more often you try to succeed the greater your chances of achieving success. If you just count the hits and assume no failures, it is easy to believe in destiny, determinism, and genetics.

Creativity is the highest form of human achievement, it is what IQ tests want to measure and can not. Creativity comes in all forms, some forms can be more easily be put into a box and parameterized, other forms are not easy or impossible. The same neural pathways that fire when a scientists or mathematician gets an idea is the exact same nerual pathways that fire when a poet or a song writer gets an idea.

 

[Zoot Allures]

I'm not sure if you can increase IQ, but you can definitely decrease it by listening to Jordan Peterson.

I think you mean religion can decrease IQ

Peterson makes some great points and is well respected. He claims an IQ of 150.

His best point is good jobs are going only to those who

1 Have technical expertise

2 to gain such expertise takes a high IQ

3 No one in considering the social impact of point 1 and 2. For example, what are all the truck drivers, cab drivers etc going to do when smart vehicles do all the driving? We will soon have a society of have and have nots with those who have wealth far outnumber those who do not. Then WTF happens?


To solve this problem we need to figure out how to "raise consciousness" and that is "one tough nut to crack"


Public schools have never even considered the concept of making you smarter. Their concept of education is to give you knowledge and if you are a "slow learner" they put you in a class where you learn easier stuff and you graduate just as stupid as when you started


BTW, those cognitive games that claim to raise IQ are BS, according to Peterson. They just make you better at doing the games and are a money grab backed by very weak science.

https://www.lumosity.com/landing_pages/970

 

[frankcastle]

I think you mean religion

He makes some great points and is well respected. He claims an IQ of 150.

His best point is good jobs are going only to those who

1 Have technical expertise

2 to gain such expertise takes a high IQ

3 No one in considering the social impact of point 1 and 2. For example, what are all the truck drivers, cab drivers etc going to do when smart vehicles do all the driving? We will soon have a society of have and have nots with those who have wealth far outnumber those who do not. Then WTF happens?


To solve this problem we need to figure out how to "raise consciousness" and that is "one tough nut to crack"


Public schools have never even considered the concept of making you smarter. Their concept of education is to give you knowledge and if you are a "slow learner" they put you in a class where you learn easier stuff and you graduate just as stupid as when you started


BTW, those cognitive games that claim to raise IQ are BS, according to Peterson. They just make you better at doing the games and are a money grab backed by very weak science.

https://www.lumosity.com/landing_pages/970

Isn't technical expertise just knowledge?

 

[Smallcock]

When you look at musk you see what you think is rare, high IQ. What I see that is rare is his risk appetite more specifically his ability to think calmly while taking huge risks, to me that is much more rare than High IQ. That is something that is learned, learned through countless failures. I am sure Elon has a long track record of failures, it is just that he does not talk about it.

Risk taking is rare, but that personality trait is not exclusive to the Elon's of the world. Since risk taking is a general human trait, presumably it's fairly distributed throughout people regardless of their IQ. Great comment, it's something to look into.

Getting up after failing shows resilience, but again, I don't think high IQ people have any monopoly on this trait.

You probably see the world as deterministic, that the past is the sole predictor of the future, you probably believe in destiny. I see the world as pobabilities, and as such; the more often you try to succeed the greater your chances of achieving success. If you just count the hits and assume no failures, it is easy to believe in destiny, determinism, and genetics.

I don't see it this way at all nor do IQ researchers. Human lives are very complex and are shaped by a myriad of things. IQ is just another attribute (an important one since it's measurable and predictive) that helps us describe a person. The more attributes we have, perhaps the better we can understand individuals. When we speak about others what do we say about them? We usually list a bunch of their attributes e.g. tall, attractive, energetic, considerate, dependable, funny, sociable. We often include "smart" too which may be a colloquial way of saying high IQ. Intelligence seems to be important to us.

Creativity is the highest form of human achievement, it is what IQ tests want to measure and can not. Creativity comes in all forms, some forms can be more easily be put into a box and parameterized, other forms are not easy or impossible. The same neural pathways that fire when a scientists or mathematician gets an idea is the exact same nerual pathways that fire when a poet or a song writer gets an idea.

I agree that talent is very special and not something scientists have been able to capture. For example, people with low and high IQs have created wonderful works of art.

 

[Zoot Allures]

Isn't technical expertise just knowledge?

But it is knowledge that takes high intelligence to learn and do well

Perterson's point is not everyone has a high enough IQ to acquire tech skills and he claims IQ tests are a very good measurement of consciousness (which is a better word for intelligence) , although one can cheat on IQ tests by practise. And, he claims it seems politically incorrect to even acknowledge this science based fact about IQ measurement.

LSAT exams and other university testing is IQ test by a different name. But, a lot of people "cheat" by practice. Hell, I was in U of T and noticed a poster for a day seminar on LSAT practise. So, I went and it was a bunch of stuff like you read a paragraph and try to deduce WTF the writer meant along with logic problems. Sounds like an IQ test to me

 

[Occasionally]

But it is knowledge that takes high intelligence to learn and do well

Perterson's point is not everyone has a high enough IQ to acquire tech skills and he claims IQ tests are a very good measurement of consciousness (which is a better word for intelligence) , although one can cheat on IQ tests by practise. And, he claims it seems politically incorrect to even acknowledge this science based fact about IQ measurement.

LSAT exams and other university testing is IQ test by a different name. But, a lot of people "cheat" by practice. Hell, I was in U of T and noticed a poster for a day seminar on LSAT practise. So, I went and it was a bunch of stuff like you read a paragraph and try to deduce WTF the writer meant along with logic problems. Sounds like an IQ test to me

For sure.

I have a masters, so to get in you have to a GMAT test.... (not sure if they still do it). It's basically a fancy IQ test, but includes a written essay part, and a lot more reading/verbal questions. A typical IQ test is a lot more math, logic, and everything is multiple choice.

Nobody writing a GMAT does it cold going in. Everyone practices and learns the types of questions asked. The more you practices, the higher the score. Someone going in blind will likely score lower than if they went in prepared.

 

[Smallcock]

Before WWII, IQ research was treated like any other interesting field of scientific research. Sadly, the horrors of Hitler's Germany changed what was deemed acceptable scientific inquiry, and understandably so. But this line of thinking will have to change. Humans are curious creatures. We want to know why and how Einstein's brain differs from our own. We also desire self-improvement. We want to be better, faster, stronger.... and smarter. The keys to unlocking these questions relies on scientific investigation.

We tend to think that the only potential danger of the research involves the subjugation of low IQ individuals. However, we should note that Hitler's Germany was obsessed with murdering a group of people that have very high IQs - the Jewish people. He wanted to kill them in spite of their higher average intelligence. So, while danger lurks, it can come from any number of directions.