Vaughan Spa

Cameron Gardiner

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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This guy was also charged with 2nd degree murder for defending his family and home.
 

IM469

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Isn't a man allowed to defend his family and home ?
The only strain on 'defending his home' is if he shot them in the back after chasing them through three backyards.

Three intruders in your house - are you suppose to over power all of them using the handle of your pistol as a club ?

Maybe it is an automatic charge until the nature of the event is determined and acknowledged in a court of law. Ex: You invite two buddies over that you owe money to and then shoot them claiming they were intruders. He was offered bail, hopefully that isn't routine if he was a murderer. .
 

barnacler

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May 13, 2013
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The only strain on 'defending his home' is if he shot them in the back after chasing them through three backyards.

Three intruders in your house - are you suppose to over power all of them using the handle of your pistol as a club ?

Maybe it is an automatic charge until the nature of the event is determined and acknowledged in a court of law. Ex: You invite two buddies over that you owe money to and then shoot them claiming they were intruders. He was offered bail, hopefully that isn't routine if he was a murderer. .
I suspect that the automatic charge idea is generally correct.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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I don't understand why he was charged with 2nd degree murder (dropped yesterday). Isn't a man allowed to defend his family and home?
Man charged with second-degree murder in Collingwood shooting - BarrieToday.com
Are you saying that he should never have been charged? That doens't make any sense. It seems reasonable that the police would arrest and charge him on the spot as he was found with the gun and the victims. I'm sure there are police processes surrounding these kind of incidents. AFAIK, Ontario does not have a "stand your ground" type law. That means that these things are taken on a case by case bassis.
 
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IM469

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Are you saying that he should never have been charged? That doens't make any sense. It seems reasonable that the police would arrest and charge him on the spot as he was found with the gun and the victims. I'm sure there are police processes surrounding these kind of incidents. AFAIK, Ontario does not have a "stand your ground" type law. That means that these things are taken on a case by case bassis.
No, I suggest he he shouldn't be convicted if he was faced with three strangers in his own home. I agree with charging him automatically (he killed two men) until the courts sort out the details.
 

explorerzip

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No, I suggest he he shouldn't be convicted if he was faced with three strangers in his own home. I agree with charging him automatically (he killed two men) until the courts sort out the details.
I was asking Darts why he thinks that Cameron should not have been charged. It should be standard police procedure to list the charges when they arrest someone, but I'm sure there have been times where it didn't happened in a timely manner. Let's hope we never face this type of situation.

Why do you suggest he should not be convicted when you don't have the details of what happened or evidence?
 

Darts

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Even if the charge(s) are dropped,

1) Doesn't the charge stay on his record when a future wife and/or employer obtain a police reference report? Would you want to marry and/or employ someone who was once charged with murder?

2) Also, does it prevent him from travelling to the U.S., Australia, Singapore, etc.?
 

explorerzip

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Even if the charge(s) are dropped,

1) Doesn't the charge stay on his record when a future wife and/or employer obtain a police reference report? Would you want to marry and/or employ someone who was once charged with murder?

2) Also, does it prevent him from travelling to the U.S., Australia, Singapore, etc.?
Only a lawyer can answer these questions and help get the police records destroyed. As always, it depends on the case specifics.

These are not reasons for why he should not be charged at all.
 

Darts

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Only a lawyer can answer these questions and help get the police records destroyed. As always, it depends on the case specifics.

These are not reasons for why he should not be charged at all.
The problem is that even being falsely charged, if it remains in your police file, could still ruin your life. It might mean no one will want to marry and/or hire you. You will be begging for spare change at the corner of Bay/King and living in tent city.
 

explorerzip

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The problem is that even being falsely charged, if it remains in your police file, could still ruin your life. It might mean no one will want to marry and/or hire you. You will be begging for spare change at the corner of Bay/King and living in tent city.
And a good lawyer should be able to help you get those records destroyed. It will take a long time, money and cause a lot of upset in his life, but that's totally different to taking someone's life. A ruined life is no the same as being dead. I'm not defending the victims of the shooting BTW.

Besides, your post has little information about what actually happend and doesn't even say that he was defending himself from a home invasion, etc. Might have been nice if you posted an update about this story.
 

Darts

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Might have been nice if you posted an update about this story.
I did say in the initial post that the charge was dropped. After they dropped the charge, I stopped following this guy around (too creepy).

Mar 30, 2021

I don't understand why he was charged with 2nd degree murder (dropped yesterday)
 

explorerzip

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I did say in the initial post that the charge was dropped. After they dropped the charge, I stopped following this guy around (too creepy).

Mar 30, 2021

I don't understand why he was charged with 2nd degree murder (dropped yesterday)
So where did you get this information that the charges were dropped against him? I'm not doing homework for you. Your original post is not a source BTW. You still haven't made a reasonable case for why you think that he should not have been charged at all.
 

RichardG2020

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Nov 30, 2019
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Are you saying that he should never have been charged? That doens't make any sense. It seems reasonable that the police would arrest and charge him on the spot as he was found with the gun and the victims. I'm sure there are police processes surrounding these kind of incidents. AFAIK, Ontario does not have a "stand your ground" type law. That means that these things are taken on a case by case bassis.
In these situations, police will always charge and leave it to the courts to make the final determination.

In Canada, you just can’t shoot someone and get away with it if you’re ‘only’ getting robbed.

If the defendant could demonstrate that he thought his mother’s life hung in balance, he could possibly get acquitted.
 
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explorerzip

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Congratulations on taking 2 years to post a follow up to your first post. Yet you still haven't come up with any reason why he shouldn't have been charged in the first place. I don't take issue with your earlier point about it being potentially harder to get a job or travel outside the country. Do you know that was the case though? He's a carpenter so getting a job isn't applicable.
 

Darts

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Congratulations on taking 2 years to post a follow up to your first post.
I said in post #1 that the charge was later dropped. There was nothing to followup because the charge was dropped.
Yet you still haven't come up with any reason why he shouldn't have been charged in the first place.
Because the charge was baseless and that is why they were later dropped. People should not be falsely charged in the first place.
I don't take issue with your earlier point about it being potentially harder to get a job or travel outside the country. Do you know that was the case though? He's a carpenter so getting a job isn't applicable.
That was a general statement applicable to anyone falsely charged and not specific to him.
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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In these situations, police will always charge and leave it to the courts to make the final determination.
This is tantamount to presumed guilty and the burden of proof falls on the defendant to prove his innocence. Of course, the police in this case kicked the matter to the courts.

Let's see what happens in the Mian case. Will the charge also be dropped later?
Milton man, 22, charged with murder defended himself against home invasion, lawyer says | CBC News
 
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