Bums Go Underground Today

[jwmorrice]

Isn't this a lovely Xmas treat? From today's Toronto Sun:

Panhandlers go underground today
By JACK BOLAND, TORONTO SUN

Advocates for the homeless plan to take Torontonians on the PATH to social awareness today.

A mass panhandling event will target "major merchants" along a 27-km maze of underground corridors and tunnels that stretch from Union Station up to College Park.

Outside Union Station waiting for the generosity of strangers, Scott, 48, and Al, 49, had their hands and hats outstretched in the afternoon drizzle as they talked of raising awareness to their plight and cuts to social programs.

"People see us and think we're all illiterate and sub-human, drug dealers and boozers," said Scott, who has been in and out of prison and on the street for 25 years.

"I don't drink, but I have an addiction and I'm trying to beat it and being here panning is a good place for me to be," he said, huddled under blankets "in his spot" at a bus shelter at King and Bay Sts.

"We are hoping to raise awareness that even though we are down, we are trying to pick ourselves up."

The event is organized by the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty, which states on its website that merchants along the underground PATH are the same people "who press for a policy of sweeping homeless people under the rug. They don't want their money-making to be interrupted by destitute people seeking the basic necessities of life."

Police are advising employees who work in the financial towers and businesses to err on the side of caution today to avoid any flare-ups.

 

[train]

Panhandling on private property is illegal.

The cops should arrest them all , however, due to the numbers that is probably impractical.

Last time there was some property destruction and I hope they arrest anyone that participates in that.

Why don't they just panhandle City Hall?

 

[RTRD]

Lol!!!!!!

""People see us and think we're all illiterate and sub-human, drug dealers and boozers," said Scott, who has been in and out of prison and on the street for 25 years."

I literally laughed out loud when I read that....

 

[james t kirk]

The pan handling is OUT OF CONTROL in Toronto.

Chairman Miller needs to take a lesson from Rudy Gulliani in NYC. Enough is enough.

The current system clearly does not work. While I do feel sorry for those who are mentally ill and on the street and think that something surely could be done to help these people, the vast majority of vagabonds are lazy goofs who think that society should support them.

I guess the OCAP anarchists have been out of the news a little too long and they decided to have a little fun today at everyone else's expense.

 

[JessiMae]

...the vast majority of vagabonds are lazy goofs who think that society should support them.

I guess the OCAP anarchists have been out of the news a little too long and they decided to have a little fun today at everyone else's expense.

I can agree with you to a certain extent on that. I don't talk about it much here, but I was once homeless, not my own fault because I was 13 at the time. CAS ended up taking me in because my mother could not afford to feed/house me or my little brother. In grade 9 I would walk to school from the homeless shelter and have nothing for lunch. I liked school a lot and for me it was an escape from the shitty life of shelters. As a kid I was always embarassed of how poor I was so I never had any close friends. I hung out at the local library until closing time and got my homework done. My grades were good and in grade 9 I was set on going to university.

I think a lot of the problems people have are in their heads. Mental obstacles. My mother is an educated woman (has a Bsc) and there should be no reason why she cannot find a job. Yet I find with her (and many other people in her situation) there is always an excuse for not working. There also seems to be excuses for not seeking resources such as OSAP for those who say "school is not an option-I cannot afford it" or other types of social/work related benifits. Same goes for following up on appointments and other such things. The biggest problem for most of these people is not disability, addiction, or things they have done in the past, it is the mental obstacle "I cannot do it".

 

[wumpscut]

Wow JessiMae, you had a lot to deal with when you were so very young. I'm impressed with how well you handled it. I don't think most people would have been able to cope with things as well as you did, myself included.

 

[Questor]

""People see us and think we're all illiterate and sub-human, drug dealers and boozers," said Scott, who has been in and out of prison and on the street for 25 years."

I literally laughed out loud when I read that....

Interesting. And you laughed because you consider him illiterate and sub-human?

 

[fuji]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: When you give people money for nothing you encourage people to do nothing.

The best thing you can do for these people is nothing. Anything else just enables them to continue on as they are.

Instead more money should be put into things like OSAP and such so that those who finally decide that yeah, they can do it (Jessie is right on) do have those options.

When you give a panhandler free money, free food, or free housing you are injuring them.

 

[Anderson]

Interesting. And you laughed because you consider him illerate and sub-human?

I think he laughed because of the screaming contradiction !

 

[3Tees]

When you give a panhandler free money, free food, or free housing you are injuring them.

Don't feed the animals, eh?

Sometimes I look at my life, and think that just a little twist of fate here or there could have left me homeless - less supportive family, a business that does well now but could have failed, etc... There is no doubt that someone needs to be MOTIVATED to get off the street. However, in the moment when you see someone starving, when you see someone cold and when you see someone sick - at that very moment - I personally don't think they need the kind of motivation that comes from withholding necessities!!!!

 

[JessiMae]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: When you give people money for nothing you encourage people to do nothing.

The best thing you can do for these people is nothing. Anything else just enables them to continue on as they are.

Instead more money should be put into things like OSAP and such so that those who finally decide that yeah, they can do it (Jessie is right on) do have those options.

When you give a panhandler free money, free food, or free housing you are injuring them.

Again I think a lot of it is in peoples' heads. Government can pour as much money as they want in to public housing, welfare, etc and people will still be living off the system. They get their $600 a month, and every month (as they rightfully should do) the government checks up on them. Personally I do not like the government prying in to my bank account. I think living on welfare is a pretty depressing life. I know what poverty is like first hand and it is not the life to live.

What a lot of these people do not realize is that there is a lot of opportunity even with doing small things. You don't need a 4 year degree to walk dogs for example. during the day time I walk dogs and get paid pretty decently. Over the years I have worked for many other people and let me tell you working for myself pays much better. There are also a lot of factories that hire workers for a day at $10 an hour. Not much but it gets you started. I can think of at least 50 things you can do for money and make a business out of. Not much education required, but must gain skills.

 

[RTRD]

No....

Interesting. And you laughed because you consider him illerate and sub-human?

...I laugh because he as been in and out of prison for 25 years, and admits to having "an addiction", but looks down on "boozers and drug dealers".

I trust a "boozer" a hell of a lot more than a heroin (for example) user.

And while many drug dealers, especially at the very tactical street level, are a total menace and threat to society, at the higher levels they are but business men who provide a product to people who have a desire for it. They no more have a negative impact on my life than the bookies who facilitate gamblers.

My main point though, which has been touched on a couple times already, is this guy sounds like a CLASSIC case of "it is not my fault I am here, so you should help me". As others have said, my heart goes out to those who are truly mentally ill. But if you started taking drugs anytime in the last 50 years...you knew you would probably end up fucked up - yet you chose to do it anyway. And I see so many perfectly healthy teenagers and young(er) men out panhandling now is is a fucking shame.

Go get a fucking job. If someone who doesn't even speak English can serve me some fries because THEY don't want to live on the street, your ass sure as hell can. No fucking sympathy for the lazy and those you think it is incumbent on ME to provide for THEM so they can pursue their dream of being a rock star / skateboarder / artist / whatever the fuck.

If there is someplace I can go to buy some clothes for and work with a particular young man (interviewing skills, etc.) so that he can have what he needs in order to land himself a job...point me to it. I am ALL about helping people who want to help themselves. I know what it is like to need a break, and to be given one. I still have some good karma to pay back to the universe.

The lazy and intentionally anti-social who mock me, my SUV, my suit and my capitalist ways, even while they ask me for money as the clean my windshield? Fuck 'em...not one fucking ounce of sympathy.

 

[MuffDiver]

I know I am getting pretty sick of being bugged for money when I am walking the streets, going in and out of grocery stores and the LCBO.

Almost everywhere I go, someone has their hand out.

It is really getting annoying. These pricks sit 5 feet outside the door and management of the facilities say they cannot do anything about it.

 

[3Tees]

Yeah, but that's exactly the point. Begging is expedient ("in the moment"), but it's not a viable solution for the individual or for society.

What's that phrase? Give a hand up but not a hand out?

Fully agreed! Begging is not a viable solution for the individual or society, and I love the phrase... I think it was a United Way slogan.

If there were better long-term planning, more viable options and more solutions, there may be less people homeless. The reality is, however, this is not the case, and I don't feel that people who are vulnerable in our society should be punished because government or other organizations can't get their act together to help them. I mean I'm not Mother Theresa or anything, but I help if I have some change on me. Probably give out about $20-$30 per year, I'm guessing.

Sometimes, the hand-up, in my opinion is recognizing the person doing the begging is actually a human being and treating them with respect.

 

[gdurham]

Interesting. And you laughed because you consider him illerate and sub-human?

I laughed because the first part of the sentance is saying 'you've got it all wrong we're good people...' and then the second half says...'well...maybe not'

 

[fuji]

There is no doubt that someone needs to be MOTIVATED to get off the street. However, in the moment when you see someone starving, when you see someone cold and when you see someone sick - at that very moment - I personally don't think they need the kind of motivation that comes from withholding necessities!!!!

Sure it does. There are people out there who would be working if we weren't providing all their necessities for free.

I am not against funding programs that help people, but they should be voluntary programs, things people choose to go into. Things like OSAP, adult education, literacy, job training, rehab, available for people who decide that theya re sick of starving and want to do something about it.

I'm also not against funding for those who really CAN'T do anything, like the mentally ill, or severely disabled. I am not inclined, though, to provide funding for someone who is mentally and physically healthy, even if they have some drug addiction, outside of those programs. So I'd fund the drug addict if he/she decided on their own to walk into rehab, but not fund them to lie around on the street.

There is no better way to motivate someone than to confront them with cold hard reality.

Odd as this may seem if you give free handouts to people who are on the edge, you encourage MORE people to be on the edge. You are literally subsidizing being on the edge, creating an incentive to be on the edge.

 

[2wheeljunkie]

With all of the pan handling around, it becomes a very lucrative job... flex hours, eat out all day, no cleaning, sleep where ever you want, nobody to answer to and still earn approx. 20K a year. Best of all TAX FREE!!

 

[jwmorrice]

With all of the pan handling around, it becomes a very lucrative job... flex hours, eat out all day, no cleaning, sleep where ever you want, nobody to answer to and still earn approx. 20K a year. Best of all TAX FREE!!

Indeed! Have a look at this eye-opening excerpt from John Stackhouse's award-winning 1999 series on homelessness that appeared in the Globe and Mail:
http://www.lesliejermyn.com/ANT204W07/Stackhouse2.pdf

jwm

 

[WinterHawk]

Warehouse the mentally ill, the drunks and the drug addicts, draft them into a labour battalion and get them building deep water ports and infrastructure in the Far North to get Canada ready for the day the Artic melts. If you're gonna pay them to live, the least they can do is work for their daily bread.

You'd be surprised how many would try and clean up their act if this was the alternative.

 

[Questor]

Don't feed the animals, eh?

Sometimes I look at my life, and think that just a little twist of fate here or there could have left me homeless - less supportive family, a business that does well now but could have failed, etc... There is no doubt that someone needs to be MOTIVATED to get off the street. However, in the moment when you see someone starving, when you see someone cold and when you see someone sick - at that very moment - I personally don't think they need the kind of motivation that comes from withholding necessities!!!!

This is a thoughtful post. Thank you for your contribution.