Brother of Peyton...an NFL question

[cyberbard]

I have a weird question...and I have asked this on an NFL board, so I have the rabid fan answers, to some degree...

The San Diego Chargers have the first overall draft pick for 2004...and the experts all expect the brother of one Peyton Manning, Eli from Ole Miss, to be taken first overall. Said experts apparently expect Eli to be even more impressive than older brother Peyton (and, ipso facto, father Archie).

The thing is that Drew Brees, although benched for a few games, did show some late season flashes of potential.

I have two theories here...1) Due to said flashes, the Chargers are not in need of another young quarterback.
2) If the Chargers do nothing and pick someone else, Eli Manning would then be taken second by a division rival...the Raiders...and I doubt the Chargers want him in the division.

Just curious...any predictions as to who gets Brother Manning?

Bard

 

[aptenodytes]

I suspect if they can the 'bolts will trade the pick for several lower picks and beef up their defence. With Tomlinson, Brees and Boston I think they have the core of a good offence.

 

[BigBlack]

They will trade Peyton for later picks. Can't afford a top pick right now. Drew looked promising but needs to make smarter choices. His combine numbers are worse then most starters in the league, but he is a good thrower. His mobility isn't great. His mistakes are huge (fumbles, INT at crucial times).

He needs a great O-line to protect him which wasn't there in SanDiego. They had a brutal O-line. Their starters and back ups were getting injured. The receiver core was weak also which didn't make his job any easier. All they had was Boston and a bunch of young guys (Tomlinson was great also, but I'm talking WR). Sucks that Dwight was hurt yet again. He can play but if he gets injured again..who knows...Take away Tomlinson and that team's offense was dead. It also didn't help Drew that their defense was horrid also. Put a lot of pressure on him.

The coolest thing was seeing Flutie and Tomlinson scramble. That might be the last time we see Flutie play in the NFL. Can't wait for him to come back to the CFL. WIll make every game.

BBLACK

 

[cyberbard]

Now, I realize the Bolts will trade him...but my question, perhaps, should be rephrased as to whom would they trade the pick?

 

[MuffinMuncher]

I agree that San Diego will either trade the pick OR draft Eli then trade him..... cant afford him, bigger needs elsewhere, etc.

Do you think that perhaps Bill Parcells is salivating at the prospect of getting Eli Manning to replace Quincy Carter? Carter is a very good back up, a la Kordell "Slash" Stewart, but not a franchise QB.

 

[BigBlack]

They need O-linemen bad...bad...bad. Their LB core is weak without Seau, huge hole. Their defensive secondary can get picked apart but looked better the last few games. Caldwell dropped more balls then he caught. Screw him. Gates will be a stud. The Bolts are so weak in so many places who knows what they'll do.

Screw Manning. I hope they blow a boatload of cash and get Larry Fitzgerald who is being hyped as the the type of receiver that comes around every 25 years. With Fitzgerald and Boston, you will have defenses shitting their pants. All they do now is double Boston.

The only game they looked great was the Vikings game where Flutie just was on fire and the team played with passion, helping him.

 

[gramage]

the chargers certainly could trade the pick, the steelers are picking 4th and if they whiff on Drew Henson they'll be after Manning. this could get the chargers the top lineman in the draft Robert Gallery, or maybe the other stud QB of the draft Ben Roethlisberger. I could also see Miami trying to trade up but their probably too far down. the problem with any trade is that the fans in SD are gonna hate it. you think the fans are happy that their team traded away the rights to pick Mike Vick? Manning is a stud QB equal to his brother, hell he's a clone of his brother with a touch more mobility and further along in reading defences. and I'm really not sold on Drew Bree's. I don't think he has the arm to start in the NFL or enough mobility to compensate for it. in my opinion they really need Manning to energize their franchise.

bigblack: not chance they take DB's. they've picked corners in the first round 2 years running and this year they also took some DB's in the 2nd and 3rd round. they have the prospects they just need to develop.

 

[cyberbard]

I didn't know about the chance of Vick with the Chargers...and as a Bronco fan, let me just say how thankful I am they didn't take him.

That being said, rumour is that Fielder might be out in Miami...that might be a good spot for him. Send Fielder to San Diego along with some draft picks...Fielder could replace Flutie as the elder statesman trying to bring Brees along.

Bard

 

[gramage]

Miami would be great, but the problem is that SD would be trading down probably 15 spots, and that would demand so many other picks that it would scare Miami and even that might not get the chargers attention.
Vick in SD was a lock until the night before the draft, but they were scared because of Ryan Leaf, now they have to be scared because they passed on a franchise QB, meaning they take him.

ps. there's a chance Ben R will be the 2nd pick of the draft after Manning, anyone else think he's terrified of the deja-vu that is gonna seem like?

 

[cyberbard]

Maybe, but as much as that 15 spots might scare them...A Raider uniform with the name Manning on it, espescially only a year off an AFC Championship and with two Hall of Fame receives on the roster is even scarier...

I suspect that San Diego, under the right circumstances, might take lower than market value for the pick.

That being said, you can't tell me that a team such as the Browns, Jags or even the Giants wouldn't be interested in trading up...and, thus, not as far of a drop for the Bolts.

Bard

 

[gramage]

jags can't because they just added Leftwich, Browns have too much money at QB already, but the Giants are definately a possibility since Collins has 1 year left in his contract and is aging. and as much as I love the eagles the idea of Eli Manning to Jeremy Shocky as a fan maked me salivate.

 

[cyberbard]

Forgot about Leftwich...good point...

Giants have another advantage (along with any other potential NFC trades for the pick) in that the Chargers would only have to play him once a year then...

...minor point, but one to consider, none-the-less.

Bard

 

[BigBlack]

bigblack: not chance they take DB's. they've picked corners in the first round 2 years running and this year they also took some DB's in the 2nd and 3rd round. they have the prospects they just need to develop.

I hope they grab Mark Brunell for a couple of years and see if Brees will pan out. Fitzgerald is a dream, but would start right away and create immediate impact. You're right about them stacking the rookie secondary. Hope they develop soon. The Bolts had the worst pass defense in the league.

BBLACK

 

[cyberbard]

Just a thought...looking at the NFL.com draft order...one might think that the Buffalo Bills might be in the market. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that Bledsoe can't have that many years left as he started in '92...

That also being said, another team only one year off the Super Bowl might be interested in Tampa...

 

[gramage]

I still think the steelers are the best option. The Steelers need their qb of the future and they need him right now, even if he rides the bench a while, the wideouts they have demand you get a star to exploit them. it's in AFC but out of the division which is acceptable, and they only drop 3 spots and can collect a few mid to high picks over the next two drafts. if you still think Bree's can be your qb you draft Robert Gallery. he's the best tackle since Orlando Pace and Johnathan Ogden and he'll give Bree's every opportunity to find find his targets. this is a very deep draft at reciever and if Reche Caldwell develops with a 2nd round reciever he'll have targets enough to sink or swim on his own.

now for the flies. Ben Roth- and JP Losman, the other 1st round qb's in this draft that push down the value of Manning in a trade, even if you want him. this doesn't affect a steeler deal since Ben is a lock to the cardinals if the raiders pass. Losman could hedge a Miami though

 

[gramage]

Just a thought...looking at the NFL.com draft order...one might think that the Buffalo Bills might be in the market. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that Bledsoe can't have that many years left as he started in '92...

That also being said, another team only one year off the Super Bowl might be interested in Tampa...

Bills are an option, but money could kill that as Bledsoe's pricey. I think Tampa holds off as they were pleasantly suprised by Chris Simms (Phil's son) and believe he can start for them when Johnson is done.

 

[BigBlack]

Bills are an option, but money could kill that as Bledsoe's pricey.

I think Bledsoe will have to re-negotiate his contact.

Grammage, you know your football. Did you play junior? Too bad the York Lions and Varsity Blues stink. No one to cheer for in this town.

BBLACK

 

[aptenodytes]

Fitzgerald is eligible? Thought he had another year left to go in college before he could come out.

BTW, Carter and Stewart are nothing alike as QBs - Carter is pretty much a pocket guy, and Stewart is... well, Stewart is not.

 

[gramage]

Fitzgerald has not been granted elligibility yet, but because he spent time in another school getting his grades up and is 3 years out of high school he's likely to get an exemption and let in.
I played a bit in high school, but while I love football, I am horrible at playing it. if he leaves school he along with Tommy harris of the sooners could mean Eli doesn't go number 1, but if he drops people will look at it the way they do the idea of couch over mcnabb.

 

[Fortunato]

Interesting topic. My two cents below:

1) Due to said flashes, the Chargers are not in need of another young quarterback.

Only a handful of teams do not "need" another young quarterback; but every team "needs" a young franchise quarterback (even those teams with seemingly "untouchables"... like GB or SF... have succession issues to deal with).

Second, unlike most other positions, very few QBs can come directly into the league and SURVIVE, let alone prosper (yes, Peyton did it, but he is an exception...). It is RARE for a rookie QB to start because it takes time to develop a QB at the professional level, where the ones that aren't brought in slowly are either the runners (a la Vick), or chum (Leaf, Mirer, etc.).

Third, unlike other positions (especially ones on defence), draft is the ONLY way to get FRANCHISE quarterbacks (again, with very few exceptions). Other spots can be improved via free agent signings or trades, but how often do you see a franchise quarterback traded or walked (unless they are at the very end of their career)?

No, the draft is always top-heavy with QBs, because everyone is looking for Montana-Elway-Marino-Favre-Manning, and it's the only way to get one. If they (Chargers) believe that L'il Manning has the POTENTIAL to be THAT good of a QB, they will take him. And they will keep him. Because Brees does not.

As much as it hurts to say it (because I am also a Flutie fan), I would expect to see L'il Manning backing up Brees at the beginning of next year.