An interesting read...I hear a lot from the women I date(d) that this carries over into the 30's and 40's as well...
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26317942/
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26317942/
Boys to men: Why guys aren’t growing up (Guyland)
- Thread starter RTRD
- Start date
That article is very long on observation and very short on analysis. In short, the author has done the easy part (observing) but not the more difficult part (analysis) of explaining why exactly the behaviour is occurring.
I'm not entirely convinced anything has changed. People like to think about the "good ol' days" of yesteryear but there were slackers back then just like there are today. Maybe it's that the bar continues to be raised and the guys who automatically got the jobs in the past (because they were white males) now have to compete with women, non-whites, immigrants, etc. (which isn't a bad thing, at least for society).
I do think there is some underlying truth to it all though. I mean what exactly is the appeal of marriage these days? Sure, if you want kids and/or a family, marriage is necessary. But I see a whole lot of miserable married guys who are screwed if they stay and screwed if they get divorced. Doesn't seem very appealing to me. Of course, I might just be biased from overhearing a female co-worker say to her female colleagues that they just needed to get married and have kids and then the guy is "trapped" and their security is assured.
The simplest answer to the article is probably this one... Guys don't grow up because they don't have to.
The nefarious aspect to this, though, is that guys end up making poor choices early in their adult lives that end up trapping them down the road. The best advice for young people is to create options for themselves. They may not have any clue where they want to end up, but giving themselves options when they ultimately get there is the next best thing.
I'm not entirely convinced anything has changed. People like to think about the "good ol' days" of yesteryear but there were slackers back then just like there are today. Maybe it's that the bar continues to be raised and the guys who automatically got the jobs in the past (because they were white males) now have to compete with women, non-whites, immigrants, etc. (which isn't a bad thing, at least for society).
I do think there is some underlying truth to it all though. I mean what exactly is the appeal of marriage these days? Sure, if you want kids and/or a family, marriage is necessary. But I see a whole lot of miserable married guys who are screwed if they stay and screwed if they get divorced. Doesn't seem very appealing to me. Of course, I might just be biased from overhearing a female co-worker say to her female colleagues that they just needed to get married and have kids and then the guy is "trapped" and their security is assured.
The simplest answer to the article is probably this one... Guys don't grow up because they don't have to.
The nefarious aspect to this, though, is that guys end up making poor choices early in their adult lives that end up trapping them down the road. The best advice for young people is to create options for themselves. They may not have any clue where they want to end up, but giving themselves options when they ultimately get there is the next best thing.
i cant remember who the author was but i remember reading a very interesting take on this topic. the author went on to describe how all women from the beginning of time to present day must go through an initiation into womanhood via the onset of menstruation. this physical change in a womans body has a psychological effect in terms of shifting ones idea of ones self from a "girl" to a fertile "woman". once a woman goes through the process of her body maturing and changing, there is no going back physically or psychologically. the pains associated with embodying a fertile body are a constant reminder that one is no longer a little girl and must exist in the world as a woman.
men however have no naturally occurring equivalent - in tribal communities there is quite often an initiation rite that boys go through in order to mark the changeover from boyhood to adulthood - be it either through the hunt, or through some sort of solitary experience, or even through body scarring/modification/whatever. the underlying point is that tribal communities recognized the importance of marking the change from boyhood to adulthood and creating some kind of psychological/physical "rite of passage" that will stay with the individual for their lifetime, reminding them that they are no longer a boy.
in the present day, there is no modern equivalent of such a process, and its so common for men to live at home long past their teenage years, for mothers to baby their sons, and for sons to let their mothers continue to do so. even when they break away from their mothers, so often they end up having a relationship with a woman who simply fills the role of "mother" for them, and re-enacts that same childhood paradigm endlessly. there is an inherent and essential need for all human beings to break away from their parents and forge their own path in order to become true "adults"; unfortunately a lot of people seem to be terrified of taking the challenge to go it on their own. i meet a lot of adult men who, although they may be physically separated from their mother, psychologically they are still tied to her "apron strings" and have not really grown up and become men. the concept of what a "Man" really is has been warped and perverted by present day society, and i feel this is why so many men today experience the emotional problems and problems relating to women that they do.
men however have no naturally occurring equivalent - in tribal communities there is quite often an initiation rite that boys go through in order to mark the changeover from boyhood to adulthood - be it either through the hunt, or through some sort of solitary experience, or even through body scarring/modification/whatever. the underlying point is that tribal communities recognized the importance of marking the change from boyhood to adulthood and creating some kind of psychological/physical "rite of passage" that will stay with the individual for their lifetime, reminding them that they are no longer a boy.
in the present day, there is no modern equivalent of such a process, and its so common for men to live at home long past their teenage years, for mothers to baby their sons, and for sons to let their mothers continue to do so. even when they break away from their mothers, so often they end up having a relationship with a woman who simply fills the role of "mother" for them, and re-enacts that same childhood paradigm endlessly. there is an inherent and essential need for all human beings to break away from their parents and forge their own path in order to become true "adults"; unfortunately a lot of people seem to be terrified of taking the challenge to go it on their own. i meet a lot of adult men who, although they may be physically separated from their mother, psychologically they are still tied to her "apron strings" and have not really grown up and become men. the concept of what a "Man" really is has been warped and perverted by present day society, and i feel this is why so many men today experience the emotional problems and problems relating to women that they do.
Then there's the whole, "women are looking for security/stability" angle whereas many men simply are not.
Women get old and lose their looks. Try getting a quality man once that happens. Good luck. There's a biological clock ticking down for women that just isn't there for men. Has any guy ever uttered the phrase that he has to get married by 30? Not if he has balls he hasn't.
Men, on the other hand, just need to accumulate money, power, or self-confidence. Those attract women no matter what the man's age.
Unless you're looking to settle down, a man is crazy to emotionally or financially tie himself to a woman. New hot women come along every year. Just stay out of the trap and you'll be good to go well into your 40s and maybe even 50s.
Women get old and lose their looks. Try getting a quality man once that happens. Good luck. There's a biological clock ticking down for women that just isn't there for men. Has any guy ever uttered the phrase that he has to get married by 30? Not if he has balls he hasn't.
Men, on the other hand, just need to accumulate money, power, or self-confidence. Those attract women no matter what the man's age.
Unless you're looking to settle down, a man is crazy to emotionally or financially tie himself to a woman. New hot women come along every year. Just stay out of the trap and you'll be good to go well into your 40s and maybe even 50s.
I dunno. Hugh Hefner looks just this side of pathetic, running after hot babes in his pjs.Keebler Elf said:
IMO, the growing # of men who don't want to "grow up" reflects a few things:
1) the increasing difficulty to land the "ideal" job, circa 1960s: a permanent, full time job that didn't require too much in training or qualifications.
2) the lack of involvement of the guy's parents to shape and influence his career choices early on in life
3) the increasingly high standards of eligible women, thus making it difficult for these guys to pursue the typical route of "growing up" and starting a family
4) the growing insignificance of organized religion...thus removing the stigma of being a single guy in his 30s. C'mon, if some guys had to attend church alone every Sunday, he'd be hooked up in no time at all.
1) the increasing difficulty to land the "ideal" job, circa 1960s: a permanent, full time job that didn't require too much in training or qualifications.
2) the lack of involvement of the guy's parents to shape and influence his career choices early on in life
3) the increasingly high standards of eligible women, thus making it difficult for these guys to pursue the typical route of "growing up" and starting a family
4) the growing insignificance of organized religion...thus removing the stigma of being a single guy in his 30s. C'mon, if some guys had to attend church alone every Sunday, he'd be hooked up in no time at all.
