Billion Dollar Park

Drizzt

Registered L User
Jul 24, 2012
199
3
0
East York
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rail-deck-park-cost-1.3764249

Is spending a billion dollars on a park the best use of the city's money? BTW: They say a billion dollars now but these government projects always end up costing way more.
So here is my take. When the East End/Scarborough wants transit, there is no money. Visionaries will say that it will help the area grow but elitists will say that "the suburbs dont warrant proper transit, its the suburbs, it wasnt designed that way".

Well, Downtown wasnt designed to be parkland. Downtown is office buildings and Condos. You want to go to a park, hop on a Ferry and go to Centre Island. Or move to the Suburbs.

I think its a great idea and a great use of space but I am so skeptical of these price tags. City of Toronto needa better negotiators
 

JackBurton

Well-known member
Jan 5, 2012
2,003
837
113
Toronto is the economic engine of Canada. Building a park like this will do two things: make a public space that will raise Toronto up the scale of livable cities and second: keep the people who work and drive the economy happy(ier) while sucking the life and youth from them.

I'm in, let's get 'er done

Anyone says there is no money to pay for it needs to look at their deductions off their pay checks and see that half our pay goes to taxes. The government can afford it, make them direct our taxes in the right direction.
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
17,550
2
0
You want to go to a park, hop on a Ferry and go to Centre Island.
The politically active Islands squatters will scream bloody murder if more people come to "their" island. Also, we need a fixed link to the Islands. This ferry thing is ridiculous.

Question: Instead of a mega park, can we have maybe 2-3 smaller parks where children and dogs can play and the elderly can throw crumbs to the pigeons? (One concern with parks is that they tend to attract the "wrong" type of people (drug dealers, pedos, old men with cameras, etc.)
 

JohnHenry

Well-known member
Aug 27, 2003
1,405
353
83
rural ontario
Toronto is the economic engine of Canada. Building a park like this will do two things: make a public space that will raise Toronto up the scale of livable cities and second: keep the people who work and drive the economy happy(ier) while sucking the life and youth from them.

I'm in, let's get 'er done

Anyone says there is no money to pay for it needs to look at their deductions off their pay checks and see that half our pay goes to taxes. The government can afford it, make them direct our taxes in the right direction.
Except that the City of Toronto doesn't collect any payroll taxes. Look at your property tax bill.
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
11,171
2,545
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They built a raised highway (Gardiner) which is falling down and will take hundreds of millions to repair so what makes a 8 sq KM raised park not raise any alarms that there could a nightmare brewing in twenty years ? (I'm not against the Gardiner - it is a vital functioning commerce route, this is an entire park).

I'm also not comfortable with politicians throwing the term billion dollars - a term that was used to describe country economies not so long ago - at just about every city endeavour that crosses their desks. I hate that term almost as much as 'revenue tools' a fancy term for forcible anal rape of the taxpayer.
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
17,550
2
0
They built a raised highway (Gardiner) which is falling down and will take hundreds of millions to repair
If the city has a billion dollars, maybe some can go to repairing the Gardiner and/or our schools. Better value than a park in my opinion. If downtown condo dwellers want a park of their own, let them pay for it themselves.
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
41,959
8,814
113
The politically active Islands squatters will scream bloody murder if more people come to "their" island. Also, we need a fixed link to the Islands. This ferry thing is ridiculous.
The Island squatters are on borrowed time. Thanks to the diversion of the Don River and the anti-erosion measures at the Scarborough Bluffs, the Islands are slowly eroding into the Lake Ontario. The Islands are not getting enough silt to regenerate itself. Lake Ontario is a deep water lake with a current. The Docklands were once a wetland when the Don River flowed to it's natural course. But in it's infinite wisdom, City Council decided that the Don had to be diverted turning the Docklands into a toxic wasteland.

If New York can turn their meat packing rail lines into parks why can't Toronto? The NYC Rail park has turned into something of a cash cow to the nearby businesses.
 

silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
4,575
5,888
113
A billion bucks is a lot of money. But, at the same time, a nice park like Chicago's Millennium Park could become a major tourist attraction. Of course, they'd need to do it right. And the city's track record is anything but stellar....
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
100,975
28,177
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The Island squatters are on borrowed time. Thanks to the diversion of the Don River and the anti-erosion measures at the Scarborough Bluffs, the Islands are slowly eroding into the Lake Ontario. The Islands are not getting enough silt to regenerate itself. Lake Ontario is a deep water lake with a current. The Docklands were once a wetland when the Don River flowed to it's natural course. But in it's infinite wisdom, City Council decided that the Don had to be diverted turning the Docklands into a toxic wasteland.

If New York can turn their meat packing rail lines into parks why can't Toronto? The NYC Rail park has turned into something of a cash cow to the nearby businesses.
Islanders, who have 99 year leases given out by the city, have quite a bit of 'borrowed time' left. Housing sales are strictly controlled through a trust and rules put in place by the city.

The Islands are really just big sandbars, houses there have to be raised every few years or risk sinking into the sand. There are almost no basements because the water table is about 1 foot below the soil.
And the shape of the islands have changed and continue to change due to changes in water currents, but disappearing? Nope.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,107
1,292
113
The politically active Islands squatters will scream bloody murder if more people come to "their" island. Also, we need a fixed link to the Islands. This ferry thing is ridiculous.

Question: Instead of a mega park, can we have maybe 2-3 smaller parks where children and dogs can play and the elderly can throw crumbs to the pigeons? (One concern with parks is that they tend to attract the "wrong" type of people (drug dealers, pedos, old men with cameras, etc.)
You do realize that all of the "squatters" are all on 1 island called Algonquin, which is far away from all the attractions and noise of Center Island? What is the point of a fixed link to the islands when all you have is park land on it? And in the winter, said bridge or tunnel would basically be empty. Since you're so concerned that parks attract the "wrong" type of people, that must mean that High Park, Centennial Park, Bluffers Park, etc are all cesspools of crime right? By extension, that must mean there are never any stabbings, shootings, people taking illicit picture in Yonge and Dundas Square right? Fact: there are the "wrong" type of people everywhere and not building parks will not prevent them from coming out.

On the surface, a park in the downtown area (above the rail corridor or even above the Gardiner) is a great idea. Something like New York's High Line park. Interestingly enough, TD Bank is one of the sponsors of that park. But I do agree that the city needs to find a way to pay for it without going bankrupt. The city will definitely need corporate sponsorship to make such an expensive park a reality.
 

Mr. Piggy

Banned
Jul 4, 2007
3,027
2
0
Oshawa
If the city has a billion dollars, maybe some can go to repairing the Gardiner and/or our schools. Better value than a park in my opinion. If downtown condo dwellers want a park of their own, let them pay for it themselves.
I agree on this. What a blatant waste of taxpayers money. I am so glad I don't live in Toronto because I wouldn't be able to afford it on a pension.
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
17,550
2
0
Coronation Park is not that far from condoland. Is that park not good enough for the condo dwellers?
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,067
4,010
113
The money would be better spent elsewhere. Like putting it towards a Queen Street Subway Line between Sherway Gardens and Scarborough town Centre

Or,

Turning the Union Pearson Express into a U shaped at grade subway with new stops at Eglinton, St. Claire, Dundas West, Queen, King, Spadina (on the Western leg), then up the DVP in the abandoned Lower Don Branch of the CPR that belongs to Metrolinx / GO Transit with stops at Eastern, King, Queen, Dundas, Gerrard, Bloor Viaduct, Leaside (on the Eastern Leg)

Putting a park on top of the tracks will only turn into a nightmare when the structure naturally deteriorates from exposure to moisture over time.

Thing is, it's not like the money has been earmarked for this project. It's just a pipe dream in reality.
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,739
396
83
The Keebler Factory
I love how the city can't afford the necessary upgrades in public infrastructure but it wants to build a fucking park.

Par for the course in Toronto.
 

Intrepid416

Active member
Jan 25, 2005
833
102
43
The money would be better spent elsewhere. Like putting it towards a Queen Street Subway Line between Sherway Gardens and Scarborough town Centre

Or,

Turning the Union Pearson Express into a U shaped at grade subway with new stops at Eglinton, St. Claire, Dundas West, Queen, King, Spadina (on the Western leg), then up the DVP in the abandoned Lower Don Branch of the CPR that belongs to Metrolinx / GO Transit with stops at Eastern, King, Queen, Dundas, Gerrard, Bloor Viaduct, Leaside (on the Eastern Leg)

Putting a park on top of the tracks will only turn into a nightmare when the structure naturally deteriorates from exposure to moisture over time.

Thing is, it's not like the money has been earmarked for this project. It's just a pipe dream in reality.
Excellent observation, especially your final sentence. "Big Projects" (think Jean Drapeau getting Expo '67 and Olympics '76 for Montreal grab the attention and the fancy and the headlines when basic things like water, roads, social services, etc. no longer fire the imagination of voters.

More parkland is always nice.....but I'm betting this project goes no further (how often can council agree on anything?) unless their is a massive trade off of air rights to allow developers to essentially fund the park by getting juicier options to develop elsewhere in the City. Which in itself will set off a fire storm.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,753
110
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
That's a great idea, also bury the Gardner (cuts off the core from the lake) like Boston did.
 

benstt

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2004
1,600
465
83
That's a great idea, also bury the Gardner (cuts off the core from the lake) like Boston did.
What about the railway tracks? I bring this up when people mention burying the Gardner, as the railway track embankment is actually a bigger obstacle.
 
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