Ban the Qu'ran, not the Cartoons

revolution

Banned
Oct 9, 2004
398
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My tongue lives in a pussy
Here is a beautiful post I came across on another message board, tell me what you think. I agree with it completely!

"While most of the west has been unanimous in condemning the Muslim world's reaction to the cartoons, there were many who said that the papers crossed the line. But isn't that funny?

Isn't Koran a great slander against EVERY single religion. Doesn't it say that Jews are going to be turned to apes and pigs. Dosn't it say that all infidels should be cut/burned/dried/raped and enslaved. So shouldn't we all organize protest marches against Koran and burn it in public?

I mean, Islam's basic principle is that Muslims should actively desecrate every other religion. Massacre/rape/pillage the followers, and destroy their places of worship, and the bastards had carried this out throughout the history where hindu/buddhist places of worship were systematically razed to ground in the name of Islam.

Here's taliban doing it even in the present.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science...an-buddhas.htm

So Koran is a huge cartoon against every single religion in this world. So if the Danish cartoons were offensive, isn't Koran a 100 times more offensive?

I think we should make official complaint that Koran's depiction of infidels as destined to hell deeply offends our sensitive feelings, and we want Muslims to apologize for Mohammed's unflattering depiction of our beliefs, and Koran be summarily banned.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html

Cruelty in the Quran"
 

scroll99

New member
Jan 17, 2004
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You know what I' tell you one thing :

There is few things which Muslim God have promised to them that they will be
for ever protected by him no matter what evils in the world try to do to it.

One of which is that :
1) Quran will be protected by God till the judgement day meaning not a single
word of it can be changed by the Muslims or NonMuslims and it will remain in the original form . The explanation given by scholars is that God sent Holy words to the previous religions but eventually they were changed and manipulated by the Humans (like you) and now does not remain in its original form .

Everyone knows Quran is the most readed book today and will remains so till theend of this world since millions of people have learnt Quran by heart and keep doing so everyday.


Specially since 9/11 and during this wave of Islamophobia we'll find that
when we google the word Quran we can see thousands of thousands of websites trying to spread the false propanda and hate with counterfeit and bogus scripture the same way your link is doing

Many times I have been surprised that who is doing that then I realised that
there is no dearth of the fanatics and Islamophobians like you.

If time allows me sometime I 'll try to enlighten what Quran says till then
God Bless you.

And interestingly I just noticed First you fanatics were before the Prophet and the second target seems to be the Holy Book
you guys at least wait some time and give a reasonable gap so that people can easily get in your trap. You are real moroons
 
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DATYdude

Puttin' in Face Time
Oct 8, 2003
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36
The problem is fear, hatred, fanatacism, ignorance.

What an ugly start to a thread.

I'm sick of the liars, the haters, the inciters, the fanatics, the ignorant, the arrogant.

To me this whole things is that some people will use any excuse not to tolerate the differences of other people.

Live and let live. Don't want me to live? FO and die.
 

Brownie69

Member
Feb 26, 2004
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This is just an ugly proposition.

If you take away a people's freedom in Canada then you take away the fundamental principles on which this country has been founded. I don't agree with that and never will.

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion but what would be next and where is the line drawn......
 

scouser1

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2001
5,663
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Pickering
guys lets just stop responding to the ignorant statements like this who cut and paste crap they have zero understanding in, but I guess by responding I am not following what I am advising, but thats all I have to say to the ignorant, bigots and racists on here who want to lump a religion of a billion people into one category.
 

scroll99

New member
Jan 17, 2004
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Muslims and the West: A Culture War?

By John L. Esposito**
Islamic Studies – Georgetown University


Feb. 14, 2006

Demonstration in Montreal, Canada, on Feb 11, witnessed signs such as "liberty of speech is sacred" (L) and "It is mean what you are doing to Prophet Muhammad" (R)

Newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad have set off an international row with dangerous consequences, both short and long term. The controversial caricatures first published in Denmark and then in other European newspapers, target Muhammad and Islam and equate them with extremism and terrorism. In response to outcries and demonstrations across the Muslim world, the media has justified these cartoons as freedom of expression; France's France Soir and Germany's Die Welt ass\erted a "right to caricature God" and a "right to blasphemy," respectively.

One of the first questions I have been asked about this conflict by media from Europe, the US, and Latin America has been "Is Islam incompatible with Western values?" Are we seeing a culture war? Before jumping to that conclusion, we should ask, whose Western democratic and secular values are we talking about? Is it a Western secularism that privileges no religion in order to provide space for all religions and to protect belief and unbelief alike? Or is it a Western "secular fundamentalism" that is anti-religious and increasingly, post 9/11, anti-Islam?

What we are witnessing today has little to do with Western democratic values and everything to do with a European media that reflects and plays to an increasingly xenophobic and Islamaphobic society. The cartoons seek to test and provoke; they are not ridiculing Osama bin Laden or Abu Musab al-Zarqawi but mocking Muslims' most sacred symbols and values as they hide behind the façade of freedom of expression. The win-win for the media is that explosive headline events, reporting them or creating them, also boosts sales. The rush to reprint the Danish cartoons has been as much about profits as about the prophet of Islam. Respected European newspapers have acted more like tabloids.

The cartoons drive a wedge between the West and moderate Muslims.

What is driving Muslim responses? At first blush, the latest Muslim outcries seem to reinforce the post 9/11 question of some pundits: "Why do they hate us?" with an answer that has become "conventional wisdom": "They hate our success, democracy, freedoms…"—a facile and convenient as well as wrong-headed response. Such answers fail to recognize that the core issues in this "culture war" are about faith, Muhammad's central role in Islam, and the respect and love that he enjoys as the paradigm to be emulated. They are also more broadly about identity, respect (or lack of it) and public humiliation. Would the mainstream media with impunity publish caricatures of Jews or of the holocaust? As France's Grand Rabbi Joseph Sitruk observed: "We gain nothing by lowering religions, humiliating them and making caricatures of them. It's a lack of honesty and respect," he said. He said freedom of expression 'is not a right without limits'." (AP Feb 3)

A recently completed Gallup World Poll, that surveyed Muslims from Morocco to Indonesia, enables us to find data-based answers about Islam by listening to the voices of a billion Muslims. This ground-breaking Gallup study provides a context and serves as a reality check on the causes for widespread outrage.

Freedom of religion in a pluralistic society ought to mean that some things are sacred and treated as such.

When asked to describe what Western societies could do to improve relations with the Arab/Muslim world, by far the most frequent reply (47% in Iran, 46% in Saudi Arabia, 43% in Egypt, 41% in Turkey, etc.) was that they should demonstrate more understanding and respect for Islam, show less prejudice, and not denigrate what Islam stands for. At the same time, large numbers of Muslims cite the West's technological success and its liberty and freedom of speech as what they most admire. When asked if they would include a provision for Freedom of Speech, defined as allowing all citizens to express their opinion on political, social and economic issues of the day if they were drafting a constitution for a new country, overwhelming majorities (94% in Egypt, 97% in Bangladesh, 98% in Lebanon etc.) in every country surveyed responded yes, they would.

Cartoons defaming the Prophet and Islam by equating them with terrorism are inflammatory. They reinforce Muslim grievances, humiliation and social marginalization and drive a wedge between the West and moderate Muslims, unwittingly playing directly into the hands of extremists. They also reinforce autocratic rulers who charge that democracy is anti-religious and incompatible with Islam.

Where Do We Go From Here?

Islamophobia should be as unacceptable as anti-Semitism, a threat to the very fabric of our democratic pluralistic way of life.

By the US' seeking to more closely incorporate Europe in its hegemonic designs in the Muslim world, and Europe’s seeming readiness to do so, the West would be greatly enhancing the dominant view among many that this is in fact a clash of civilizations and an anti-Islamic crusade that is guided by an Islamophobic West. Recent revelations involving the degradation of the Koran by US interrogators in Guantanamo Bay and the EU’s absurd display of solidarity with Denmark in the recent cartoon controversy which inflamed Muslim passions, is further proof, in the eyes of many Muslims and Westerners alike, that a clash of civilizations is being fueled by the West.

This is further augmented if one notes how Rumsfeld described Europe and the US during the Munich conference not only as partners with common strategic interests but rather as the “civilized world” and as “a community, with shared histories, common values, and an abiding faith in democracy” facing a war that was declared by forces wishing to establish “a global extremist Islamic empire.”

Rumsfeld’s whimsical, self-serving depiction of the conflict leaves no room for any criticism of the West. In fact, during his speech at the Munich conference we do not see any attempt made to distinguish between the goals of various Islamic movements nor do we see any acknowledgement of America’s failed policies in Iraq or the role that the West had historically played in creating many of the legitimate grievances that Muslims repeatedly mention. Instead, Rumsfeld reiterated the convenient, self-gratifying cliché that the conflict is within the Muslim world, as Muslims are constantly depicted as hopelessly struggling to come to terms with the benevolent message of freedom that the West is supposedly busy propagating.

The US’ newly declared strategic posture aims at the liquidation of whatever is left of the concept of national soveregnty.

Core principles and values, like freedom of speech, cannot be compromised. However, freedoms do not exist in a vacuum; they do not function without limits. In many countries, hate speech (such as holocaust denial, incitement to racial hatred, advocating genocide) is a criminal offense prohibited under incitement to hatred legislation. Our Western secular democracies represent not only freedom of expression but also freedom of religion. Belief as well as unbelief needs to be protected. Freedom of religion in a pluralistic society ought to mean that some things are sacred and treated as such. The Islamophobia which is becoming a social cancer should be as unacceptable as anti-Semitism, a threat to the very fabric of our democratic pluralistic way of life. Thus, it is imperative for political and religious leaders, commentators and experts, and yes, the media, to lead in building and safeguarding our cherished values.

And what about Muslim responses? Muslim leaders are hard pressed to take charge, asserting their faith and rights as citizens, affirming freedom of expression while rejecting its abuse as a cover for prejudice. A sharp line must be drawn between legitimate forms of dissent and violent demonstrations or attacks on embassies that inflame the situation, and reinforce Western stereotypes. The many Muslim leaders, from America and Europe to the Muslim world, who have publicly urged restraint and strongly condemned violence, play a critical role.

Globalization and an increasingly multicultural and multi-religious West test the mettle of our cherished democratic values. As the current cartoon controversy underscores, pluralism and tolerance today demand greater mutual understanding and respect from non-Muslims and Muslims alike.

**John L. Esposito is Professor of Religion and International Affairs and of Islamic Studies at Georgetown University. He is the founding director of the Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding, a consultant to the Department of State as well as corporations, universities, and the media worldwide. He is also author of What Everyone Needs to Know about Islam, Unholy War: Terror in the Name of Islam, and co-author of the forthcoming, "Can you Hear Me Now: What a Billion Muslims are Trying to Tell Us."
 

maxweber

Active member
Oct 12, 2005
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Ask, and it shall be answered unto you

revolution said:
Here is a beautiful post I came across on another message board, tell me what you think. I agree with it completely!
I think you're one of the most despicable, bigoted jerks on this forum. For shame.

MW
 

scroll99

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Jan 17, 2004
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Religious Tolerance in Islam

http://www.theislamiccenter.com/AlNur.5.02/tolerance.html


By Dr. Abdullah M. Khouj

The violent religious disputes that reoccur in world history have their roots in a lack of tolerance, and particularly, in a lack of religious tolerance. Today, the world’s deep need for tolerance and human equity is clear. But, tolerance and human equity are the fruit of Divine Knowledge in its pure form. Allah provided mankind with Divine Knowledge so that we might understand ourselves, and understand our role in human society, and, thus, develop human relations that are based on tolerance and equity.

The Qur’an is filled with verses that urge Muslims to practice tolerance toward non-Muslims. More than that, the Divine Knowledge of the Qur’an embodies principles which are useful to every individual, Muslim and non-Muslim, in developing human relations which can manage human differences and calm religious intolerance in a pluralistic society.

The major sources of Islam, the Qur’an and the Sunnah, recommend and promote tolerance, as do the historical accounts of the Caliphs who followed the Prophet’s (pbuh) example. These sources not only recommend the practice of tolerance of Muslims toward each other, but also of Muslims with non-Muslims within an Islamic society.

The Qur’an sets the groundwork for human relations in kindness and the best of behaviors. Allah states that one of His objectives in creating humanity is that men should interact on the best of terms.

“O mankind! We created
You from a single (pair)
Of a male and a female,
And made you into
Nations and tribes, that
Ye may know each other
(Not that ye may despise
Each other). Verily,
The most honored of you
In the sight of God
Is (he who is) the most
Righteous of you.
And God has full knowledge
And is well acquainted
(With all things).” [49:13]

And later:

We have created man
In the best of molds. [95:4]


These verses confirm that we are all of one origin, and that there is a fundamental bond between all of us. This bond is firmly secured by piety, the fear of God in one’s heart. As the Prophet (pbuh) emphasized in his farewell speech:

“O people! Your Lord is One. Your Father is One. You all belong to Adam; and Adam was from dust. The most honored of you before God is the one with piety. There is no preference of an Arab over a non-Arab; nor is there a preference of a non-Arab over an Arab, or a red on a white, or a white over a red; except with piety.”

Piety

Piety eliminates any type of racial, social, or national discrimination. Religious discrimination is completely incompatible with Islam. Islam was revealed in a part of the world, and at a time, when the majority of people were polytheists. Islam came and showed people the need to believe in one God, as the only way to understand themselves, and to improve their lives. Allah confirmed to the Prophet (pbuh) that we must believe all previous messengers, and that we must reach a level of understanding with other religions. He says:

“Say ye: ‘We believe
In God, and the revelation
Given to us, and to Abraham,
smail, Isaac, Jacob,
And the Tribes, and that given
To Moses and Jesus, and that given
To (all) Prophets from their Lord:
We make no difference
Between one and another of them:
And we bow to God in Islam.’” [2:136]


And, when a Muslim discusses religion with a non-Muslim, Allah enjoin us to speak with reason and good manners:



“And dispute ye not
With the People of the Book,
Except with means better
(Than mere disputation), unless
It be with those of them
Who inflict wrong (and injury):
But say, ‘We believe
In the Revelation which has
Come down to us and in that
Which came down to you;
Our God and your God
Is One; and it is to Him
We bow (in Islam).’” [29:46]


Indeed, Allah requires us to ensure than religious discussion never be allowed to become violent:

“Let there be no compulsion
In religion: Truth stands out
Clear from Error: Whoever
Rejects Evil and believes
In God hath grasped
The most trustworthy
Hand-hold, that never breaks.
And God heareth
And knoweth all things. [2:256]

Muslims in the United States

The Prophet (pbuh) taught his companions that their actions and deeds must reflect their inner convictions, and must demonstrate their self-unity – a unity developed through their firm belief in Allah, His angels and His messengers, in the revealed books, and in the hereafter. The Prophet (pbuh) himself always observed his own behavior, to ever make his conduct more congruent with Islamic principles. In this way, the Muslim becomes a living inspiration to others. As he says: “The believer is a mirror of his brother’s behavior.”

This is especially important for Muslims in America. The United States is a melting pot society. In the USA the need for tolerance grows daily, due to ever-increasing racial, ethnic, and religious pressure. When people arrive in a new country like America, they often cling together and form their own groups to preserve their cultural individuality and traditions. If they recognize only their own norms and not those of others, or if others refuse to recognize their cultural individuality, then cultural tension and intolerance is bred.

If we keep the principles of Islam always in mind, then we will be able to control our behavior and actions even in an environment of tension and intolerance. For example, if someone swears at us and wants confrontation, we must discipline our feelings and show the swearer our own good manners – “Sticks and stones my break my bones, but words can never harm me,” as the saying goes. By demonstrating that swearing and confrontation are not solutions, we perhaps can convince the swearer that self-control and reason is the better way to deal with difficult situations. Perhaps, he will even become aware of his foolishness, and correct his behavior.

The principles of Islam are the key to understanding ourselves. And, self-understanding is the most important way to promote better interpersonal relationships. With this we can recognize the beauty within ourselves, and the beauty in others and in our relationships with them. To teach self-control and tolerance, one must set an example, and, more often than not, one must take the lead.

This article is adapted from Dr. Khouj’s 1992 book, Religious Tolerance in Islam. For a copy of that book, please contact the Islamic Center.
 

scroll99

New member
Jan 17, 2004
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revolution said:
Here is a beautiful post I came across on another message board,
Revolution , on how many other message boards you are spreading hate ?
would you dare to sent me the links of those message boards?
 
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