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August 1945: The Ignominy Of “Little Boy” And “Fat Man”

danmand

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August 1945: The Ignominy Of “Little Boy” And “Fat Man”

by Contributor • August 6, 2015

By Thomas L. Knapp

On August 6, 1945, the United States of America became the first – and, to this day, the only – nation to use atomic or nuclear weapons in actual hostilities (as opposed to testing). The unconditional surrender of Japan quickly followed, bringing an end to World War II.

For 70 years now, the anniversaries of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings have occasioned debate on whether or not those bombings were necessary, and whether or not they were justifiable.

Many World War II veterans – and others – stand on simple necessity to justify the bombings. A US invasion of Japan’s home islands, they argue, would have entailed a million or more US military casualties, and even more Japanese civilian casualties than are attributed to the atomic attacks.

The argument is facially persuasive. As of August 1945, my grandfather and my wife’s father were both serving in the US Navy in the Pacific. There certainly existed a nontrivial likelihood that either or both of them would have died in subsequent battles had the war not ended. For obvious reasons, we’re grateful they came home alive.

The persuasiveness of the argument fades when we consider the facts: Conditional surrender had been on offer since late 1944, the condition being that Emperor Hirohito remain on the throne. The US fought two of the war’s bloodiest battles – Iwo Jima and Okinawa, at a cost of tens of thousands of Americans killed – then unleashed Little Boy and Fat Man on Japan’s civilian population, rather than accept that condition. But once the war was over, Hirohito was allowed to remain Emperor.
That aside, words mean things, and neither our happiness at our ancestors’ survival nor any military argument for insisting on unconditional surrender and dropping atomic bombs to get it changes the character of what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Terrorism, per WordNet, is “the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature.” The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings meet that definition in spades.

US president Harry S. Truman ordered, consciously and with premeditation, the murder of somewhere between 100,000 and 250,000 civilians in pursuit of his political goal of unconditional Japanese surrender.

Whether or not an act constitutes terrorism doesn’t depend on whether or not its goals are laudable. Every terrorist and supporter of terrorism in history, save a handful of thorough nihilists, has justified his or her atrocities on the basis of the desired outcomes, claiming that a few innocent lives sacrificed now means more innocent lives saved later.

But innocent lives are not ours to sacrifice. Murder is murder and terrorism is terrorism, no matter what nationalist or patriotic colors we wrap them up in and no matter what ribbon of “necessity” we stick atop them.

Even if we accept the “necessity” argument for the murders at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they remain something to regret and to mourn, not something to justify or to celebrate.

http://original.antiwar.com/thomas-knapp/2015/08/05/august-1945-lets-talk-about-terrorism/
 
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Aardvark154

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As posted many times before given the amount of money spent on the Manhattan Project, had a single American life been lost in the invasion of the Home Islands there is absolutely no doubt in my mind as well as that of many scholars of the period that President Truman would have been Impeached (and likely convicted) when the information came out.

One wonders how Thomas L. Knapp would feel if like many countless numbers of Americans and lesser numbers of Brits and Canadians he wouldn't have been born if the bombs hadn't been dropped.

Further, there is a certain irony in a Dane being all aboard this article.
 

danmand

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As posted many times before given the amount of money spent on the Manhattan Project, had a single American life been lost in the invasion of the Home Islands there is absolutely no doubt in my mind as well as that of many scholars of the period that President Truman would have been Impeached (and likely convicted) when the information came out.

One wonders how Thomas L. Knapp would feel if like many countless numbers of Americans and lesser numbers of Brits and Canadians he wouldn't have been born if the bombs hadn't been dropped.

Further, there is a certain irony in a Dane being all aboard this article.
As usual, you do not read the article or respond to the issue raised in it, but immediately proclaim the talking points you have been told.

It is hard to understand that someone can become a lawyer without the ability to think independently.
 

Butler1000

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"You don't defeat an army by taking away it's ability to fight, you defeat it be taking away it's will to fight".

I'll leave you said that(and it's a paraphrase) to the war scholars as a trivia question but it absolutely applies here.

It was the right decision.
 

lomotil

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The Imperial Japanese were maniacal towards fighting to the death worshipping a emperor who they thought was god with many analogies with Islamic radicals. The ugly bombs brought a rapid end to the war and neutered the Japanese aggression, slaughter and rape in Asia. Shinzo Abe and company would do it again. Although many Japanese today are contrite, enough are not. Currently much of what Japan did from 1890- 1945 is omitted from Japanese history texts. I spent enough time drinking with Japanese friends to have an inclination from their thoughts that their past behaviour just may repeat.
 

james t kirk

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I was reading about Hiroshima the other day and in particular, about Paul Tibbets the pilot of the Enola Gay (named after his mother believe it or not)

He never felt an ounce of remorse after Hiroshima. He even went so far as re-enacting the dropping of the atomic bomb by flying a similar B29 in a Texas Airshow and dropping a fake atom bomb in the airshow, complete with mushroom cloud (believe it or not) which caused the American government of the time to apologize to Japan.

This absolutely amazes me. I thought he would have had some demons on what he was a part of, but nope. He said that he slept just fine at night.

Christ almighty, I have a hard time understanding that.
 

nottyboi

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People keep perpetuating the myth the bombs caused Japan to surrender. If you read about the Russian war in the east, you get a realization of the scale and pace of the Russian attack. It is really quite staggering. The US had already obliterated several Japanese cities including Tokyo.
 

nottyboi

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

WW II in the Pacific Theatre was particularly brutal and almost all the brutalities were committed by Imperial Japan.
yes they were brutal mofos. you can bet if Japan was not an island the rest of asia would have invaded and wiped them out. they were probably more evil then isis or any of those muslim terror groups. their belief in superiority is still somehow intact after they were beaten down by europe and america
 

jcpro

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People keep perpetuating the myth the bombs caused Japan to surrender. If you read about the Russian war in the east, you get a realization of the scale and pace of the Russian attack. It is really quite staggering. The US had already obliterated several Japanese cities including Tokyo.
People keep perpetuating the myth of Soviet contribution in the Pacific campaign, quite forgetting they had no means of invading the home islands. The atomic bomb drove home the message to the Japanese leadership. The message was " surrender or be wiped off the face of the planet". They got it, too.
 

mandrill

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yes they were brutal mofos. you can bet if Japan was not an island the rest of asia would have invaded and wiped them out. they were probably more evil then isis or any of those muslim terror groups. their belief in superiority is still somehow intact after they were beaten down by europe and america
Which is precisely why the Japanese had invaded China, over-run half of it and beaten the Chinese Army repeatedly...

Or maybe I'm mistaken and you're hinting that the Tibetans would have defeated Japan.
:crazy:
 

mandrill

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People keep perpetuating the myth the bombs caused Japan to surrender. If you read about the Russian war in the east, you get a realization of the scale and pace of the Russian attack. It is really quite staggering. The US had already obliterated several Japanese cities including Tokyo.
Yup. If your buddies the Russians had a navy and much of an air force in the Far East, they might have invaded Japan around 1955. In the meantime, the US had to do the job.

The Soviets were having massive difficulty staging small scale landings in the Kuriles at the time the Allies defeated Japan.
 

nottyboi

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Which is precisely why the Japanese had invaded China, over-run half of it and beaten the Chinese Army repeatedly...

Or maybe I'm mistaken and you're hinting that the Tibetans would have defeated Japan.
:crazy:
I meant after the war...the Mongols did try to invade Japan, and if it were not for the weather they probably woulda succeeded.
 

nottyboi

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Yup. If your buddies the Russians had a navy and much of an air force in the Far East, they might have invaded Japan around 1955. In the meantime, the US had to do the job.

The Soviets were having massive difficulty staging small scale landings in the Kuriles at the time the Allies defeated Japan.

Well of course the US navy was peerless at the time, and ever since in fact. But on the mainland the Russians wiped out the Japanese in Manchuria. The shock of this happening so suddenly was a big shock.
 

mandrill

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Well of course the US navy was peerless at the time, and ever since in fact. But on the mainland the Russians wiped out the Japanese in Manchuria. The shock of this happening so suddenly was a big shock.
That's not what caused the Japanese to surrender. The A bombs caused the surrender. The Japanese had lost repeatedly and catastrophically to the US since '43 and Japan simply shrugged and kept on fighting. Another loss to the Soviets was not going to change their attitude.
 

mandrill

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I meant after the war...the Mongols did try to invade Japan, and if it were not for the weather they probably woulda succeeded.
The Mongols tried to invade Japan in the 1300's. That's 600 years earlier. How does that have anything to do with the current topic? The Mongols invaded your buddies the Russians as well and conquered and ruled them for 300 years.
 

lomotil

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That's not what caused the Japanese to surrender. The A bombs caused the surrender. The Japanese had lost repeatedly and catastrophically to the US since '43 and Japan simply shrugged and kept on fighting. Another loss to the Soviets was not going to change their attitude.
You are right, the bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima caused Japan to surrender to the allies almost immediately. The A bomb was quite simply the catalyst for the attitude adjustment that Imperial Japan needed.
 
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