Another take on sexual Harassment.....

Jasmine Raine

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Jul 28, 2014
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It seems that some on this board feel that all these new accusations going around are from a bunch of uptight women, complaining years after the fact so they can jump on some "bandwagon" going on in Hollywood right now.

So I thought I would bring up this article because it is very real, and ask opinions on these situations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/housekeeper-hotel-sexual-harassment_us_5a0f438ce4b0e97dffed3443

Cecilia was working as a minibar attendant at a Chicago hotel when she knocked on the guest’s door and announced herself. The man’s response was quick and unequivocal: “You can come in.”

When she opened the door, “He was at the computer, masturbating,” Cecilia recalled. She was overcome with shock and embarrassment. Judging from the satisfied look on the man’s face, that was the whole idea.

“I felt nasty,” recalled Cecilia, who asked that her last name and the hotel not be identified. “You’d expect that to happen to people in a jail but not in regular work. I felt like crying.”

It wasn’t the only time Cecilia had dealt with extreme forms of sexual harassment in her three decades working in downtown hotels. A male guest once answered her knock by opening the door naked. Just a month and a half ago, a younger colleague confided to Cecilia that a male guest had tried to embrace her while she was in his room. Cecilia escorted the shaken housekeeper to the hotel’s security team to report the incident.

Since the allegations against movie producer Harvey Weinstein were first revealed last month, more and more women have stepped forward with stories of sexual harassment and assault at work. Their b**********y in speaking out has toppled powerful men’s careers in Hollywood, Silicon Valley and Washington. But much less attention has been paid to the rampant harassment in blue-collar workplaces, particularly the hotel industry.

Many of the stories that have hit front pages ― Weinstein, journalist Mark Halperin, comedian Louis C.K. ― center on powerful men who preyed on underlings or colleagues in hotel rooms ― a trend that would surprise no woman who’s ever worked as a housekeeper. If famous A-list actresses must deal with unwanted advances in the privacy of a hotel suite, imagine the vulnerability of an immigrant woman cleaning the room alone, for close to minimum wage, plus tips.

“Frankly, I don’t think much of the public understands what housekeepers go through just to clean these rooms and carry out the work,” said Maria Elena Durazo, a labor leader with the hospitality union Unite Here.

For several years Durazo’s union has advocated for housekeepers to be given handheld, wireless panic buttons that can alert hotel security when a worker feels threatened ― a sign of how dire it views the problem of sexual predation in the hotel industry. After working to negotiate the use of panic buttons in their employer contracts, the union is now lobbying city councils to mandate them through legislation so that all workers have access to them, union and non-union alike.

But, according to Durazo, the panic buttons only go so far in addressing the more fundamental problem: an imbalance of economic power between perpetrators and their victims, especially when the victims are working in or near poverty. “We have to do something to equalize the power so that women really have the ability to speak up, without having to risk their livelihood,” she said. “That goes for whether you’re a housekeeper or a food server or a big-time actor.”

Last year, Unite Here surveyed roughly 500 of its Chicago area members who work in hotels and casinos as housekeepers and servers, many of them Latino and Asian immigrants. The results were disturbing:

58 percent of hotel workers and 77 percent of casino workers said they had been sexually harassed by a guest.

49 percent of hotel workers said they had experienced a guest answering the door naked or otherwise exposing himself.

56 percent of hotel workers who’d reported harassment said they didn’t feel safe on the job afterward.

65 percent of casino cocktail servers said a guest had touched or tried to touch them without permission.

Nearly 40 percent of casino workers said they’d been pressured for a date or a sexual favor.


Nereyda Soto, 25, was working in a hotel restaurant in Long Beach, Calif., two years ago when a guest’s attention over several days started to feel like stalking. The man repeatedly called Soto over to his table whenever he dined in the restaurant, asking her personal questions, such as whether she had a boyfriend. Relatively new to the job at the time, Soto didn’t feel comfortable telling a paying guest to buzz off.

When Soto came by his table to collect the man’s check one night, she found a hotel key card along with his payment. “He said, ‘I’d love to see how you look outside this uniform. You should meet me in my room.’”

Soto was mortified, but she didn’t tell her boss at the time.

“I didn’t tell management, and I didn’t tell security, because he didn’t technically touch me and the customer is always right in this industry,” Soto explained. Even if she did report it, she didn’t expect her company would do anything about it, and she didn’t want to come off as a troublemaker: “I didn’t want my name to be out there. So I just let it go.”

The experience got Soto involved in a campaign in Long Beach to bring panic buttons to the city’s hotel workers. Led by labor groups, the idea of outfitting housekeepers with a way to alert hotel security started to catch on in 2011, after French politician Dominique Strauss-Kahn was accused of assaulting a housekeeper at a New York hotel. The following year, the New York Hotel Trades Council won a contract for 30,000 workers that guaranteed the use of panic buttons for housekeepers covered under the agreement.


In Long Beach, Soto’s union took a different tack: They tried to win the panic buttons through legislation so that the protections would be extended to all of the city’s hotel workers, not just those covered by a union contract. The local chamber of commerce campaigned against the regulation, estimating that compliance would collectively cost affected hotels about $3 million. After a yearlong effort, the Long Beach City Council narrowly rejected the panic button proposal in a 5-4 vote in September.

A similar panic button measure Unite Here pushed in Chicago fared much better. The City Council passed a “Hands Off, Pants On” ordinance last month, which requires hotels to outfit housekeepers and others who work alone in guest rooms or bathrooms with panic buttons by July 1, 2018. It also requires hotels to develop sexual harassment policies that show workers how to report incidents and provide them with time to file complaints with the police.

Unlike the union contract workers secured in New York, the Chicago ordinance will apply to hotels citywide, regardless of whether workers are in a union. It’s the first piece of legislation of its kind enacted in the U.S.

The Chicago campaign probably got a boost from the findings of its member survey on harassment, which Jorge Ramirez, president of the Chicago Federation of Labor, said he found “astonishing.” Ramirez said the city’s hotel lobby didn’t actively fight the measure. The new national conversation about sexual harassment at work will make it harder to do so, he predicted.

“We didn’t see them out there with pompoms, but they didn’t speak out against it, either,” Ramirez said. “I think the industry would have a hard time opposing this, especially with everything that’s come to light in the last few months.”

The housekeepers wore “No Harveys in Chicago” T-shirts to mark the ordinance’s passage. Among those celebrating was Cecilia, who had spent months rallying her colleagues around the cause. She hopes the new panic buttons will bring a sense of safety to workers like the young housekeeper she helped not even two months ago.

“It’s more security, and more support,” Cecilia said. “Trust me. You shouldn’t be scared to work.”
Thoughts???
 

canada-man

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alcohol is usually involved in sexual assault cases
 

Smallcock

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The interpretation of events between men and women is sometimes comical. The guy in the hotel room jerking off to porn in front of his computer when she happened to knock on his door... in male layman's terms... was a [immature, rude, classless, insert-your-favorite-term] joke. Good for a little laugh but harmless. That "extreme form of sexual harassment" made her "feel like crying"...

The waitress was getting hit on... since when is asking a woman if she has a boyfriend harassment? If the dude actually left his keys and an inappropriate note, she could have reported it to management. Perhaps they could have had her not wait his table anymore.

I do think that sexual misconduct is rampant but please take any surveys done from groups with names like "Unite Her" with a grain of salt for impartiality. They have a vested interest in exaggerating the problem.

The panic button seems like an ok idea when women are working alone in hotel rooms.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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It seems that some on this board feel that all these new accusations going around are from a bunch of uptight women, complaining years after the fact so they can jump on some "bandwagon" going on in Hollywood right now.

So I thought I would bring up this article because it is very real, and ask opinions on these situations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/housekeeper-hotel-sexual-harassment_us_5a0f438ce4b0e97dffed3443



Thoughts???
Having worked in the industry I can confirm this is all true. And can get worse.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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The interpretation of events between men and women is sometimes comical. The guy in the hotel room jerking off to porn in front of his computer when she happened to knock on his door... in male layman's terms... was a [immature, rude, classless, insert-your-favorite-term] joke. Good for a little laugh but harmless. That "extreme form of sexual harassment" made her "feel like crying"...

The waitress was getting hit on... since when is asking a woman if she has a boyfriend harassment? If the dude actually left his keys and an inappropriate note, she could have reported it to management. Perhaps they could have had her not wait his table anymore.

I do think that sexual misconduct is rampant but please take any surveys done from groups with names like "Unite Her" with a grain of salt for impartiality. They have a vested interest in exaggerating the problem.

The panic button seems like an ok idea when women are working alone in hotel rooms.
Seriously? At what point is surprising a stranger with an erection Ok? Answer, it isn't. Anywhere. Anytime. For any reason.

I don't think you realize the power imbalance in hospitality. I in the past before I'm out had to defend female to workers on more than one occasion. The combo of money, alcohol, perceived "station" and just being an asshole made life difficult. We are trained to be nice. And some just don't see the line.
 

sempel

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Feb 23, 2017
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Thanks Jessica for the article.

The interpretation of events between men and women is sometimes comical. The guy in the hotel room jerking off to porn in front of his computer when she happened to knock on his door... in male layman's terms... was a [immature, rude, classless, insert-your-favorite-term] joke. Good for a little laugh but harmless. That "extreme form of sexual harassment" made her "feel like crying"...

The waitress was getting hit on... since when is asking a woman if she has a boyfriend harassment? If the dude actually left his keys and an inappropriate note, she could have reported it to management. Perhaps they could have had her not wait his table anymore.

I do think that sexual misconduct is rampant but please take any surveys done from groups with names like "Unite Her" with a grain of salt for impartiality. They have a vested interest in exaggerating the problem.

The panic button seems like an ok idea when women are working alone in hotel rooms.
Dude, it's not for you to decide. It's for the woman to decide. The only thing is by not saying anything, it's hard to say it's harassment. For the "stalking customer", by not saying anything to the manager or the customer, the behavior is not going to stop. Perhaps the guy felt he was paying attention and since she didn't indicated he should back off, he didn't. Sadly, the waitress didn't do anything (out of ignorance/fear) that would have made the situation better.

Seriously? At what point is surprising a stranger with an erection Ok? Answer, it isn't. Anywhere. Anytime. For any reason.

I don't think you realize the power imbalance in hospitality. I in the past before I'm out had to defend female to workers on more than one occasion. The combo of money, alcohol, perceived "station" and just being an asshole made life difficult. We are trained to be nice. And some just don't see the line.
Agreed. Face it, this wouldn't be acceptable behavior at work or in public. So why would it be acceptable in a hotel room?

Sexual harassment is very taboo at work and in the past, I think most people would feel scared to come forward if something happened. Today, I like to think that's changed somewhat, although that's company dependent. Most companies only do basic training and only effect real change after a major incident/scandal. It's a bit like whistleblowing - it should be considered a good thing to do but in general there are more consequences for the whistleblower so people keep quiet.
 

Samranchoi

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Jan 11, 2014
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I worked as a bartender in a restaurant years ago and had numerous women who wanted to go out but since I had a GF at the time, I never went out with any of them. There was one guy however, who came in everyday for a drink(s) so that he could see me. Eventually after many drinks, he told me that he liked a type of cigar (nationality) which was obviously directed at me. And immediately he put his cheek right up against mine and invited me up to his place after work Was I surprised by what he said and did? Of course. I politely said no and eventually he got the hint I was not interested and he stopped coming in for drinks. I told the owner and he was not surprised by what happened as he could see the guy took a shine to me.

If something like this could happen to me, it is no wonder that individuals encounter such situations everyday.
 

canada-man

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VERYBADBOY

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I've seen a few documentaries on the abuse in the service sector, not only by clients but also by management but probably my most eye opening was travelling with a coworker who gets off on doing this to the staff and bragging about it .. after 2 different business trips I basically asked to not go or be anywhere near this guy. My executive assistant would book at a different hotel and flight and the other guys EA would tell her because we all knew what a scumbag this guy was and he is still doing it to this day ... decades of doing this ... he doesn't get it and never will.

VBB
 

sempel

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Feb 23, 2017
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I've seen a few documentaries on the abuse in the service sector, not only by clients but also by management but probably my most eye opening was travelling with a coworker who gets off on doing this to the staff and bragging about it .. after 2 different business trips I basically asked to not go or be anywhere near this guy. My executive assistant would book at a different hotel and flight and the other guys EA would tell her because we all knew what a scumbag this guy was and he is still doing it to this day ... decades of doing this ... he doesn't get it and never will.

VBB
Don't know if you want to go off and report this but I'm sure it is a offence that warrants termination. Since the person is travelling for business, he's doing so as a representative of his employer. Should something happen they could very well be dragged into the fray.
 

rhuarc29

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Sexual assault is a serious offense, but I always take sexual harassment accusations with a grain of salt, because they're often something incredibly minor, in my opinion.

Take for instance some of the examples in the article. A guy was hitting on a waitress. He offered his hotel key. Big deal! She played along, and I completely agree with her reasoning for why she did, but he didn't force himself on her, merely left the option open. Do you really want to live in a world where hitting on someone is considered some heinous crime? It's ridiculous.
What about the guy who was masturbating at this computer? Well, he's a definite perv and I'd be embarrassed myself if I walked in on that, but it certainly wouldn't shake me to my core the way it did the woman in question. Heck, I'd probably be laughing about it within ten minutes, if not immediately.
Same goes for the guys opening the door naked. Annoying, but hardly worth getting worked up over.

What about Al Franken and his allegations? Looks to me like he merely played a disrespectful joke on Tweeden. Somewhat lewd, but we see worse on a daily basis. His latest accuser says he grabbed her ass during a photo op...with her husband holding the camera. Now, maybe he did grab her ass, it's hard to say for sure, but more likely he simply and unintentionally had his hand on her back, perhaps a bit lower than he should have.

Now contrast these examples with actual sexual assault perpetrators: the Weinsteins, the Spaceys, and the Moores of the world. It's night and day to me. This false equivalency is dangerous. After all, much of the public believes us hobbyists are, by the mere act of hobbying, victimizing the SPs we see.
 

VERYBADBOY

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Don't know if you want to go off and report this but I'm sure it is a offence that warrants termination. Since the person is travelling for business, he's doing so as a representative of his employer. Should something happen they could very well be dragged into the fray.
You want me to report on someone in a high position of authority who hasn't sexually harassed me personally to an HR department that basically turns a blind eye on it. If his EA hasn't, she is a wonderful woman that puts up enough of him but also knows that her job could be in jeopardy... if he goes where does she go?

That's only the tip of the iceberg of office politics.

VBB
 

sempel

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You want me to report on someone in a high position of authority who hasn't sexually harassed me personally to an HR department that basically turns a blind eye on it. If his EA hasn't, she is a wonderful woman that puts up enough of him but also knows that her job could be in jeopardy... if he goes where does she go?

That's only the tip of the iceberg of office politics.

VBB
Granted I don't know your situation or the office politics. It's an option, not one that you have to choose. Just beware in some cases those who are aware but overlook get in hot water too.
 

Smallcock

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Sexual assault is a serious offense, but I always take sexual harassment accusations with a grain of salt, because they're often something incredibly minor, in my opinion.

Take for instance some of the examples in the article. A guy was hitting on a waitress. He offered his hotel key. Big deal! She played along, and I completely agree with her reasoning for why she did, but he didn't force himself on her, merely left the option open. Do you really want to live in a world where hitting on someone is considered some heinous crime? It's ridiculous.
What about the guy who was masturbating at this computer? Well, he's a definite perv and I'd be embarrassed myself if I walked in on that, but it certainly wouldn't shake me to my core the way it did the woman in question. Heck, I'd probably be laughing about it within ten minutes, if not immediately.
Same goes for the guys opening the door naked. Annoying, but hardly worth getting worked up over.

What about Al Franken and his allegations? Looks to me like he merely played a disrespectful joke on Tweeden. Somewhat lewd, but we see worse on a daily basis. His latest accuser says he grabbed her ass during a photo op...with her husband holding the camera. Now, maybe he did grab her ass, it's hard to say for sure, but more likely he simply and unintentionally had his hand on her back, perhaps a bit lower than he should have.

Now contrast these examples with actual sexual assault perpetrators: the Weinsteins, the Spaceys, and the Moores of the world. It's night and day to me. This false equivalency is dangerous. After all, much of the public believes us hobbyists are, by the mere act of hobbying, victimizing the SPs we see.
Finally some common sense. It’s just ridiculous how even middle aged men pretend to be triggered by these minor silly laughable embarrassing if crude, perverted, lowlife, immature behaviour.

It does make some sense... the seeds of hyper-sensitivity were planted with the boomers - the luckiest and laziest generation in human history.
 

Kirby2006

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Jul 17, 2014
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Finally some common sense. It’s just ridiculous how even middle aged men pretend to be triggered by these minor silly laughable embarrassing if crude, perverted, lowlife, immature behaviour.

It does make some sense... the seeds of hyper-sensitivity were planted with the boomers - the luckiest and laziest generation in human history.
Luckiest and laziest? Pretty bold statement coming from someone who spends an inordinate amount of time posting here.
 

Smallcock

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Luckiest and laziest? Pretty bold statement coming from someone who spends an inordinate amount of time posting here.
I have the ability to spend inordinate amounts of time here because I worked and hustled my way into financial freedom. Something most boomers know nothing about.
 

Kirby2006

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I have the ability to spend inordinate amounts of time here because I worked and hustled my way into financial freedom. Something most boomers know nothing about.
I worked my way to financial freedom paying interest rates between 12 and 20% in the 70s and 80s. Took a long time and I didn't have my feet up on a desk.
Let's just say that every generation has it's own struggles and opportunities. No generation is unblemished by any means.

Sorry to have gone off topic. Proceed.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
33,351
7,202
113
Sexual assault is a serious offense, but I always take sexual harassment accusations with a grain of salt, because they're often something incredibly minor, in my opinion.

Take for instance some of the examples in the article. A guy was hitting on a waitress. He offered his hotel key. Big deal! She played along, and I completely agree with her reasoning for why she did, but he didn't force himself on her, merely left the option open. Do you really want to live in a world where hitting on someone is considered some heinous crime? It's ridiculous.
What about the guy who was masturbating at this computer? Well, he's a definite perv and I'd be embarrassed myself if I walked in on that, but it certainly wouldn't shake me to my core the way it did the woman in question. Heck, I'd probably be laughing about it within ten minutes, if not immediately.
Same goes for the guys opening the door naked. Annoying, but hardly worth getting worked up over.

What about Al Franken and his allegations? Looks to me like he merely played a disrespectful joke on Tweeden. Somewhat lewd, but we see worse on a daily basis. His latest accuser says he grabbed her ass during a photo op...with her husband holding the camera. Now, maybe he did grab her ass, it's hard to say for sure, but more likely he simply and unintentionally had his hand on her back, perhaps a bit lower than he should have.

Now contrast these examples with actual sexual assault perpetrators: the Weinsteins, the Spaceys, and the Moores of the world. It's night and day to me. This false equivalency is dangerous. After all, much of the public believes us hobbyists are, by the mere act of hobbying, victimizing the SPs we see.
So if it's appropriate to essentially assume a server bring nice to you means she wants to have anonymous sex with you does this apply elsewhere.

So I can do this to......

My hairdresser
Dental assistant
Legal secretary
Bank clerk
Grocery checkout
Retail worker

Etc

And they should also just shrug off the fact I essentially assumed they are promiscuous enough to sleep with a stranger in a hotel room?

Why don't you explain why it's ok for a hospitality worker in their workplace to be subject to demeaning sexual advances from people.

And then explain why it would also be ok to assume any female family member you care for should also be assumed to be ready to drop to their knees for a stranger as well.
 

rhuarc29

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Apr 15, 2009
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So if it's appropriate to essentially assume a server bring nice to you means she wants to have anonymous sex with you does this apply elsewhere.

So I can do this to......

My hairdresser
Dental assistant
Legal secretary
Bank clerk
Grocery checkout
Retail worker

Etc

And they should also just shrug off the fact I essentially assumed they are promiscuous enough to sleep with a stranger in a hotel room?

Why don't you explain why it's ok for a hospitality worker in their workplace to be subject to demeaning sexual advances from people.
Because they're grown adults that should be able to handle an advance. Men can't read minds. If a man hits on a woman, and she reacts positively, many of them are going to assume she's game. I say this as someone who has never done so myself with a hospitality worker for the very reasons you state. I also say this as someone who keeps romances 100% out of the workplace because I know the problems they bring. I just don't think it's some heinous crime. People take trivial bullshit far too seriously these days, when we have actual serious shit to deal with piling up. People aren't perfect; they read situations wrong and make mistakes. They shouldn't be considered sexual offenders for that.

Rule of thumb: If someone does something you don't like, be an adult and make your displeasure known. If the behaviour persists, then it may be considered harassment.
 
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