Club Dynasty

Anbar "Politically Lost"

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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The senior Marine officer in charge of intelligence in Iraq has now said that the Anbar province in Iraq is essentially lost. In his words, "there is almost nothing the US military can do" to improve the situation there. One of the most pessimistic assessments yet. As another officer put it. "We haven't been defeated militarily, but we have been defeated politically, and that's where wars are won and lost". CS Monitor link to the story.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0911/dailyUpdate.html
 

slowpoke

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Oct 22, 2004
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Thank you!! That CS Monitor article also contains links to some other excellent articles. I've pasted a couple here. The one recurring theme is the disconnect between the politicians' versions of what is happening and the information coming from the intelligence community and top military commanders. Methinks the politicos are lying through their teeth:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=at1lIqWuwDBs&refer=us

Senate Report Says Hussein Didn't Support Al-Qaeda (Update2)

By William Roberts

Sept. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Declassified U.S. Senate reports said that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein didn't trust al-Qaeda and refused to support it.

``Saddam Hussein was distrustful of al-Qaeda and viewed Islamic extremists as a threat to his regime,'' one of the reports said. Hussein refused all requests from al-Qaeda to provide material or operational support, said the report issued in Washington today by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

A second committee report said that Iraq Deputy Prime Minister Ahmad Chalabi and his Iraqi National Congress told U.S. officials that Iraq possessed nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, information that later proved inaccurate.

Democrats said the reports show that statements by Bush administration officials before the Iraq war weren't supported by U.S. intelligence known at the time they spoke.

They include statements by Vice President Dick Cheney and Condoleezza Rice, then Bush's national security adviser, linking Iraq to al-Qaeda, said Senator Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, the top Democrat on the intelligence committee.

Cheney's statement that an Iraqi intelligence officer met in Prague with Mohammed Atta, a leader of the Sept. 11 hijackers, was ``not substantiated by the intelligence assessments at the time this statement was made by the vice president,'' Rockefeller said.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2350795,00.html

Top soldier quits as blundering campaign turns into 'pointless' war
Christina Lamb



THE former aide-de-camp to the commander of the British taskforce in southern Afghanistan has described the campaign in Helmand province as “a textbook case of how to screw up a counter-insurgency”.
“Having a big old fight is pointless and just making things worse,” said Captain Leo Docherty, of the Scots Guards, who became so disillusioned that he quit the army last month.



“All those people whose homes have been destroyed and sons killed are going to turn against the British,” he said. “It’s a pretty clear equation — if people are losing homes and poppy fields, they will go and fight. I certainly would.

“We’ve been grotesquely clumsy — we’ve said we’ll be different to the Americans who were bombing and strafing villages, then behaved exactly like them.”

Docherty’s criticisms, the first from an officer who has served in Helmand, came during the worst week so far for British troops in Afghanistan, with the loss of 18 men.

They reflected growing concern that forces have been left exposed in small northern outposts of Helmand such as Sangin, Musa Qala and Nawzad. Pinned down by daily Taliban attacks, many have run short of food and water and have been forced to rely on air support and artillery.

“We’ve deviated spectacularly from the original plan,” said Docherty, who was aide-de-camp to Colonel Charlie Knaggs, the commander in Helmand.

“The plan was to secure the provincial capital Lashkar Gah, initiate development projects and enable governance . . . During this time, the insecure northern part of Helmand would be contained: troops would not be ‘sucked in’ to a problem unsolvable by military means alone.”

According to Docherty, the planning “fell by the wayside” because of pressure from the governor of Helmand, who feared the Taliban were toppling his district chiefs in northern towns.
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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What's pathetic is that the Bush administration continues to say that Saddam had close ties to Al Queda, when their own intel tells them that he didn't and that he saw Al Queda as a threat to his regime. How much longer are they going to try to spin out the same old stories, when their own intelligence people continue to refute it?
 

woolf

East end Hobbiest
Yes, strange isn't it that a conspiracy theory concerning Saddam being responsible for 911, or having close ties to Al Qaeda can be so readily accepted by the same people who cannot even conceive of why any one would question the official story of 911 wherein 19 guys with box cutters and a sick old man hiding in a cave in the mountains of Afghanistan were able to overcome the worlds greatest civil and military security forces 3 times in about two hours in the heart of this great security forces homeland, and do so unaided.

Personally I would think that the proof against the Saddam / Al Qaeda conspiracy is a lot stronger than the proof against the Al Qaeda / insider US admin help conspiracy.

At least the Saddam / Al Qaeda conspiracy has had some serious investigation invested into it ... while the insider help conspiracy, even though it would make logical sense to consider the very real possibility given the unlikelihood of them completing their attack unaided, is just simply dismissed.

I suppose it's possible that the terrorists just happened to pick the only day in the history of the US military that they left the USA completely unprotected, but that's quite a gigantic coincidence isn't it?

And it doesn't have to be Bush him self that provided the inside help or authorized it ... it may be that one of his Straussian neo-con handlers did all the dirty work, and Bush was just the perfect stupid pawn.
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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woolf said:
Yes, strange isn't it that a conspiracy theory concerning Saddam being responsible for 911, or having close ties to Al Qaeda can be so readily accepted by the same people who cannot even conceive of why any one would question the official story of 911 wherein 19 guys with box cutters and a sick old man hiding in a cave in the mountains of Afghanistan were able to overcome the worlds greatest civil and military security forces 3 times in about two hours in the heart of this great security forces homeland, and do so unaided.
"Great security forces homeland"? C'mon, you're reaching. The US was very porus to potential attack prior to 9/11, and in many ways continues to be. Do you realy think after five years that they have even gotten the airport screening figured out? The situation at our nations ports, especially seaports, is far from secure.
 

woolf

East end Hobbiest
Yeah, I might be exaggerating a bit, but let's review shall we? The military was scrambled at around 8:40 ... at 10:03 flight 93, the final hijacked plane crashed .... I don't have a lot of respect for the US military, but even they can't be that bad.

An hour and 23 minutes and still no military showing up?

OK, maybe it's a matter of total and complete incompetence, but what you can't say is that it's crazy to assume some kind of conspiracy given that in over an hour and twenty minutes the US military basically sat (or was forced to sit) with its finger up its butt while terrorists attacked the USA.

To me, it's not incredible that people would come up with conspiracy theories given the events ... to me it would be incredible that people would rule out a conspiracy given the events the timelines and the actions (or lack thereof) taken.
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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woolf said:
Yeah, I might be exaggerating a bit, but let's review shall we? The military was scrambled at around 8:40 ... at 10:03 flight 93, the final hijacked plane crashed .... I don't have a lot of respect for the US military, but even they can't be that bad.
It wasn't just a failure of the military. There was very poor coordination of communication between the air traffic controllers and the airforce. No one seemed to know what was going on, which is perhaps the most damning part of the events of 9/11, that I'm sure the folks in Washington would hope everyone just as soon forgets. If they still don't have a grip on what is happening in Iraq five years later, how would you expect them to figure out an attack by these hijackers in two hours?
 

woolf

East end Hobbiest
Well one would think that a multi-pronged terrorist attack on the US eastern seaboard, over the period of two or so hours might draw the attention of someone with a little bit of competence ... especially since it was a terrorist attack broadcast live on every TV and radio station on earth.

But I guess it's not that unbelievable after all ... given that there are so many dim witted people out there that can be distracted with wild conspiracy theories (both wasting time supporting them and wasting time arguing against them) while reasonable and legitimate questions are staring them right in the face ... never underestimate the capacity for "shiny objects" to distracted people away from the obvious.

"OMG, look at that, the USA is under a terrorist attack happening right there on my TV. I'll get right on that, just let me check out what's happening over on 'American Idol' first!"
 

anomandar

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Aug 30, 2006
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Asterix said:
"Great security forces homeland"? C'mon, you're reaching. The US was very porus to potential attack prior to 9/11, and in many ways continues to be. Do you realy think after five years that they have even gotten the airport screening figured out? The situation at our nations ports, especially seaports, is far from secure.
Before Sept 11 if ANY plane A, deviated from its flight path, B, transponder was off or C, no communication with airplane then the STANDARD default action (no permission required) is to dispatch fighters. All 3 of the things happened and nada. This is the default setting people and it didnt happen, this is NOT possible. NORAD was litterally turned off and there is no fucking way a dude in a cave can do this. Its a very familar term used in CIA/NSA circles and its called LIHOP. They Let It Happen On Purpose!!!!
 
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