All Prostitution Illegal in Canada

[Dave in Phoenix]

Yah sure....

I can't believe the trouble I am having with a Canadian gal from I think Edmonton, who moved to Phoenix and then returned to Canada thinking outcall prostitution was legal in Canada but found out its illegal and returned to Phoenix!

I have referred her to all my material quoting from the Canadian Criminal Code and suggest those that say its illegal are referring to street hookers and the communicating law. Yes, bawdy incall is illegal but rarely enforced unless other crime or complaints. But she is absolutely sure I am wrong and that outcall prostitution is illegal in Canada. I now sent her the entire Criminal Code of Canada and suggested she read it to set her straight!

What else can I do !

Here is part of her note to be..so silly, yet so many Canadians don't have a clue about their own law.
---
I'm sorry to have to be the one to break this to you, but I got the information legally, from lawyers, and a certified judge, not to mention many of the gilrs that work there. I don't know where you got your information, but prostitution in Canada, is NOT legal. Never was. I'm not gonna disput it with you, I just thought you would like to know. I've always known, and I made certain I got in contact with many people while I was there, to make sure, that it was, and in turning out it wasn't I decided, it was easier here than there. The girls tell the men it's legal so they relax, and the link you gave me is to one of your websites, it has nothing to do with a Legal Canadian website. Anyhoo. Have a good week, and thanx for the provider update. Good to be home.

Above in response to:
Dave in Phoenix <dave@davephx.com> wrote:Christine,

Obviously whoever you went to in Canada was totally ignorant of
Canadian law or was just lying to you. Prostitution has always been legal in Canada, just restricted by public street solicitation law and incall (bawdy house)which is rarely enforced.

Outcall sexwork is 100% legal always has been, just like in most of Europe, Australia etc.

See quotes from the Canadian Criminal Code and lots of info at
http://sexwork.com/montreal/law.html

Best wishes
Dave in Phoenix
http://www.sexwork.com
http://www.sexworkcanada.com
http://www.touchangels.com
http://www.libchrist.com

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

While much of the info on worldsex guide is out of date(Supreme Court said naked full contact laps dancing was not a bawdy house violation for example isn't reported, here is a good summary:

"Prostitution Status: Prostitution is legal; pimping and operating or being found in or working in a "bawdy house" (every place where one or more prostitutes regularly work or where "indecent acts" are performed) are not. Solicitation in public is also illegal, which covers street and hotel prostitution. Massage parlours which provide handjobs or more are semi-tolerated. Generally the best bet are outcall escort services (which operate on shaky ground also, but are legal for both the prostitute and the customer) and independant call girls.:" Source: http://www.worldsexguide.org/canada.html

The issue with agencies is "living off the avails" but seldom enforced, there are zillions of good agencies often run by ex escorts. Only becomes a legal problem if hire underaged, illegals etc. Just selling time with an escort (time only) isn't an issue since of course the escorting is 100% legal including having sex.

There are zillions of sites dealing with the problem of the solicitation laws and bawdy that needs to be liberalized etc.. but outcall has never been an issue since 100% legal. And its very clear newspaper, mags, website, telephone solicitation is NOT illegal, only on streets (unless in remote area) or in hotel lobbies.

See for example: John Lowman, School of Criminology, Simon Fraser University about the new solicition law etc at http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~lowman/ProLaw/prolawcan.htm

Prostitution in Canada at http://www.mala.bc.ca/www/crimweb/Student/Sturdy.htm "Although prostitution has never been illegal in Canada, many of the peripheral activities intimately related with it are so penalized. Communicating for the purposes of prostitution, soliciting, keeping a common bawdy house, procuring, and living off the avails of prostitution are some examples of the type of activities that are criminalized according to the legal system."

Again just as I have always said..

 

[Dr F]

Canadian gal from I think Edmonton

Yes, but did she like your Essalen Massage Technique?

 

[Pallydin]

Ummm....Dave, maybe this helps?

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59044

PAL

 

[gala]

Dave I think you have done all you can do. She's wrong, but she's apparently determined to be wrong. There's no medicine that can cure stupidity.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

LMAO...

Ummm....Dave, maybe this helps?

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59044 PAL

Pal - Your not saying that maybe he should tell her where to go? Are you?

 

[fernie]

An outcall agency is not legal. I don't know why you are having a problem with her opinion. She sought legal advice.

I know people who have relied on the "no one is really busted" theory to their detriment. Good luck getting into the US with a criminal record for a morality crime.

I have always had a problem with Dave on his high horse trying to tell the girls who will suffer the consequences what to do. The chance of him getting busted a lot less than the working girl.

Fernie

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

Either she's just making things up to annoy Dave, or she has a serious lack of understanding of the legal situation in Canada for someone who is in the business.

Yes, agencies can be charged with living off the avails or procuring, but I'm not sure what if anything the escorts they employ can be charged with. I don't think there's any laws being broken in Canada by independent outcall only escorts, unlike in the US.

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Ummm....Dave, maybe this helps?
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59044
PAL

Great article to show the status as well as a good comment on that thread:

A part from the usual attempt to mislead the general public into thinking the sex trade in Canada is all about 14 year olds coerced into the business, I`m confused by this article. What is the point of LE investigating internet escort directory websites, when they acknowledge there`s nothing illegal about them?

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

An outcall agency is not legal. I don't know why you are having a problem with her opinion. She sought legal advice.
Fernie

Agencies had nothing to do with her issue, she is an independent.

And what escort has ever been busted for working for an escort. Only the person living on the avils is breaking the law and agenccies rarely have problems if no underaged or other illegal activities.

Just how am I wrong?

 

[fernie]

Let's take the example of telling Maggie's that you believe that no one is really arrested on these bawdy house charges or living off the avails charges, when they say that their experience is different. Given their role as an advocate in the sex trade, I would take their advice more seriously than your limited, biased experience.

Given the fact that the police published the names and ages of the women busted at Friction, I can't blame women for being gun shy about engaging in any form of sex work - outcall, incall, indy or agency.

Fernie

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

I'm not a lawyer, but if, as Dave describes, this young lady believes working as an independent outcall-only escort is illegal in Canada but legal in the US, then she has it completely wrong. She's not helping herself by being so ill-informed.

If she's choosing to be in the business, she should understand the legal situation so that she can avoid unnecessary risks.

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Let's take the example of telling Maggie's that you believe that no one is really arrested on these bawdy house charges or living off the avails charges, when they say that their experience is different. ...Given the fact that the police published the names and ages of the women busted at Friction, I can't blame women for being gun shy about engaging in any form of sex work - outcall, incall, indy or agency.
Fernie

1) If you actually read what I say and restate it correctly I never said no one is arrested for bawdy. I have always said it is RARE unless other crime involved such as underaged, drugs, illegals or complaints. That has been repeatedly confirmed by many here. Also if convicted the penalties for just bawdy are very light, nothing like in the U.S. i.e. 10 years of Court fights against the big b/d place in Toronto resulted in only a $3000 fine when finially convicted on appeal for running a bawdy house which was very well known for its BD activities.

2) What does bawdy or the Friction bust (and I often warn about going beyond what the Supreme Court said was allowable), have to do with an indy? How could an indy be arrested ? Since its 100% legal in Canada.

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

I'm not a lawyer, but if, as Dave describes, this young lady believes working as an independent outcall-only escort is illegal in Canada but legal in the US, then she has it completely wrong. She's not helping herself by being so ill-informed.

Just to clarify she knows its illegal in the U.S. When she heard outcall was legal from me in Canada she returned to Canada to find out from a lawyer and a judge that I was wrong, all forms of sex for money are illegal in Canada per what she was told. Now she is upset with me for telling her that outcall is 100% legal in Canada since she "knows" I am wrong.

Now she is upset with my trying to prove it since she believes the Canadian lawyer and judge that told her it was illegal.

The latest is she offerred to have the Canadian lawyer and judge call me to set me straight. Obviously I'd welcome that call and gave her my phone number.

I highly suspect the lawyer and judge aren't that ignorant unless they are just conservative and lied. I bet she asked about "prostitution" and like most folks just thought of street hookers.

If they call me it should be interesting. I believe the gal is 100% sincere and just upset that she thinks I told her wrong which is why she returned to Canada due to the terrible LE situation here in Phoenix.

 

[500miles]

I was in TO a few weeks ago and watched a Canadian talk show with the topic "Should Prostitution be Legal". I think it was on CityTV. Did anyone see the same show? The host was a middle-aged woman. There were two hotties, one of whom was supposedly a former escort, and there was a Asian guy also on the panel.

Had me kind of worried before I realized that that nobody on that show knew what the heck they were talking about, especially that earnest little Asian dude who was doing the white knight routine about protecting women's purity. God, give it up, you're not going to get laid by those two hotties on the panel.

 

[Berlin]

dude who was doing the white knight routine about protecting women's purity. God, give it up, you're not going to get laid by those two hotties on the panel.

Just some token talking head they had to use for balancing the " discussion ". Possibly, he surfs TERB as well, for the sake of research........[size=-2]rrright[/size].

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

I was in TO a few weeks ago and watched a Canadian talk show with the topic "Should Prostitution be Legal". I think it was on CityTV. Did anyone see the same show?

YES! I saw that show when I was in Toronto a few weeks ago. It was absolutely terrible, totally negative view of sexwork and pure ignorance. You got the impression its all illegal and no way should make it legal since it is so terrible. One women wondered how a women could so degrade herself that way etc....

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

I didn't hear about this CITY-TV program, but it sounds like I didn't miss much. Anyone remember the name of the show or the host?

Discussions on Canadian radio or TV on this subject usually are disappointing because of the general ignorance that exists. That's what you'll get when it's just average people or TV hosts. They're stuck in 1975, or as Dave describes, think we have the same laws as the US.

The ones worth watching will have people who know what they're talking about - someone like John Lowman, Alan Young, or someone from an organization like Maggie's or Stella would be great if they can get on a panel show on this subject. The vocal opponents of liberalizing the laws all rely on this general ignorance and invalid stereotypes, since they know few people can, or would be willing to contradict them. The truth makes them look silly.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see an honest documentary or newsmagazine report on this subject, say on a show like W-Five or The Fifth Estate?

 

[diva631]

Only the person living on the avils is breaking the law and agenccies rarely have problems if no underaged or other illegal activities.

Just how am I wrong?

WRONG!!!

Canada to find out from a lawyer and a judge that I was wrong, all forms of sex for money are illegal in Canada per what she was told. Now she is upset with me for telling her that outcall is 100% legal in Canada since she "knows" I am wrong.

And she is right sex for money IS ILLEGAL even in Canada!

But then it's not like you really care what "truth" is as long as you, along with a few others, get to gossip right? MY advice to this girl is run far away from you and stick with someone who's "reputable"

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

WRONG!!!
And she is right sex for money IS ILLEGAL even in Canada!

So, could you please explain to us what law specifically says it's illegal for one person to exchange money for sex with another?