AI Reset or Revolution?

GreedyBoy

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Nov 6, 2024
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I had a conversation recently with a researcher attending a conference on large language models. She is greatly concerned that there is a huge rush for capability with no attempt to deal with the consequences of AI and AGI. Ethics and safety are not being sufficiently built in. The governments of the world do not have plans for the economic fallout, or the societal damage. The whole world is being used in this experiment.

We have the potential both for great things and awful things. One large aspect of this will be even greater concentration of wealth and power in a few hands. When AI and robots can do all that humans do, including labor and scientific research, do it faster, cheaper and better, what will life look like for most of us "Useless Eaters"? Ideally there would be no more poverty, we would live comfortably, safely and securely, have long, happy and healthy lives. A new social contract. No more "Third and Second World" or exploited working poor. But that would mean the "ownership" class sharing the resources and technology that they own, effectively giving up some of their power. People, be they sociopaths or just "normal", rarely give up power. Power corrupts, turns average people into selfish monsters who find ways to justify every impulse, feel entitled to everything and have responsibility for nothing. It is a bug in "human software".

As we can see from the Epstein files, the ownership class is unbound by morality or laws. In a way we are lucky that all this information about them is coming out now - it has become undeniable that we cannot trust them to be good stewards of the world and AGI, that they pose a real danger to everyone and everything. They went too far in the Gilded Age of the 1920s. There was a reset that led to the rise of the middle class in the 1950s - one income was enough for a house, car, a few kids, a stay at home spouse and no crushing debt. Since then the owners have been clawing back those gains. We could have another French Revolution, but if so it is much more important to change the system than to just remove a cancer - other malignants would take their place. Or AGI will become autonomous and independent and we will become its children or its pets or just superfluous.

Such conversations often lead to the subject of how to have a meaningful life when AGI does everything. That I believe is a tactical mistake and a distraction - we can take decades to address purpose and meaning, but we only have years to deal with the economic and social chaos that is at our door. Revolutions do a lot a damage, take a long time and do not always lead to better things - "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". I think it better that we now start planning to reset the social contract, make that conversation dominate the news cycle, hold our politicians feet to the fire, hold the ownership class accountable. Stop blaming the powerless for society's ills - "Sheep look up!".
 
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xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
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Imho AI will decimate entry and mid level clerical, accounting, legal profession, etc. jobs.

Not to mention the misinformation that AI currently generates, which is becoming more and more sophisticated every day.

That said, very few, if any, AI companies are profitable right now, and with the tremendous costs involved in scaling up, and actually running the AI computer farms, they may eventually be a huge economic failure, even to the zillionaires who are currently building and funding them.

The power and water requirements of those AI computer farms are the exact opposite of "green".

I believe we have passed the point where computers are benefiting mankind, and entering an era where computers may actually do more harm than good to the average person.
 

SexB

A voice of common sense.
Sep 15, 2008
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What's the worst that could happen?
Though from my understanding, the AI that's around now is nowhere close to "Hack the nuclear launch codes"-level intelligence.
 

GreedyBoy

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Nov 6, 2024
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What's the worst that could happen?
Though from my understanding, the AI that's around now is nowhere close to "Hack the nuclear launch codes"-level intelligence.
Things are not moving geometrically, they are moving exponentially. My big concern is not the rise of the machines, but enormous power in the hands of a few irresponsible assholes.
 

HungSowel

Well-known member
Mar 3, 2017
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There won't be AGI, it is a fantasy. What most LLM companies will do is wait until users build something valuable, and then they steal it. They see all your prompts and your context window, they repackage your work as their own and sell it as a software or service. The LLM revenue stream is not a monthly subscription to their LLM; it is intellectual theft.

I really like LLMs for what they are good for, making boiler plate code that does 80% of the lifting and I as a developer just need to put in my 20%. Anything unique and interesting I code by myself, all the boring ass shit I try to offload to the LLM.
 

xmontrealer

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May 23, 2005
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The people and companies making money in AI are the chip and hardware makers, and the investors who own their stock.

The people who aren't making money are the companies buying that hardware and trying to monetize the industry. So far without success.

If Trump carries through on his State of the Union promise to force the AI companies to build their own power plants to generate the humongous amount of power these AI computer farms consume, that will make running them even more expensive.

At some point those companies may be forced to subsidize the cost of the huge amount of water required to cool the computers sufficiently to run at maximum efficiency.

Brave new world...
 
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GreedyBoy

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Nov 6, 2024
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The people and companies making money in AI are the chip and hardware makers, and the investors who own their stock.

The people who aren't making money are the companies buying that hardware and trying to monetize the industry. So far without success.

If Trump carries through on his State of the Union promise to force the AI companies to build their own power plants to generate the humongous amount of power these AI computer farms consume, that will make running them even more expensive.

At some point those companies may be forced to subsidize the cost of the huge amount of water required to cool the computers sufficiently to run at maximum efficiency.

Brave new world...
I asked Grok “Is it possible to recycle the water and capture energy from the water used for cooling in data farms?”. Sorry for the long reply, but it is interesting:

Yes, it is possible to recycle water used for cooling in data centers (often referred to as data farms) and to capture energy from the associated waste heat. Many modern data centers already implement these practices to improve sustainability, reduce costs, and minimize environmental impact. Below, I’ll break it down step by step.
Recycling Water in Data Center Cooling
Data centers primarily use water for evaporative cooling systems, where water absorbs heat from servers and evaporates, or in closed-loop systems that circulate water or coolants. Recycling is feasible through various methods:
• Closed-loop systems: These recirculate water multiple times, minimizing the need for fresh intake. For example, treated wastewater or non-potable sources can be reused, reducing freshwater consumption by up to 70% in some setups.  Companies like Microsoft have deployed designs that recycle water in a closed loop with zero evaporation, effectively eliminating net water loss for cooling. 
• Reclaimed or recycled wastewater: Operators source treated wastewater from utilities, further purify it, and use it for cooling towers. AWS, for instance, expanded recycled water use to over 120 U.S. locations, saving potable water for community needs.  Similarly, Google prioritizes recycled water in high-risk watersheds. 
• Blowdown treatment and reuse: In cooling towers, a portion of water (blowdown) is discharged to prevent mineral buildup, but this can be treated and recycled back into the system. This approach can cut makeup water demand by 15-25%, with only evaporative losses needing replacement.  Advanced onsite systems from companies like Epic Cleantec can recycle up to 95% of wastewater for cooling. 
Recovery rates vary—some systems recapture 50-80% of water—but challenges like space, treatment costs, and local water quality can limit full closure. In arid regions, alternatives like rainwater capture or air cooling supplement recycling. 
Capturing Energy from Cooling Water
The water in cooling systems absorbs heat from servers, creating waste heat that can be recovered and converted into usable energy. This is known as waste heat recovery (WHR), and it’s increasingly common:
• Heat reuse for heating or district systems: Hot water from cooling (typically 40-60°C) can be captured via heat exchangers and repurposed for space heating, hot water supply, or district heating networks. This reduces energy needs elsewhere and cuts emissions.  Alfa Laval, for example, offers systems that transform this thermal energy into a resource for nearby buildings or communities. 
• Electricity or cooling production: Waste heat can drive absorption chillers for additional cooling (reducing power use) or generate electricity through technologies like organic Rankine cycles, thermoelectric generators, or piezoelectric effects.  In some cases, it’s used for desalination, biomass production, or even agricultural processes.
• Integrated approaches: Innovations like combining heat pumps with WHR can achieve high efficiency. For a 2,000-ton cooling system, one method using recycled water as a heat sink in a closed loop saves 11 million kWh annually and reduces CO2 emissions by 50,000 tons per year compared to traditional air cooling. 
Energy capture isn’t 100% efficient—recovery rates depend on heat quality and system design—but it can offset 20-50% of a data center’s energy use in optimal scenarios. Economic payback is often quick due to energy savings.
Overall, these techniques are not only possible but are being scaled by major players like Google, Microsoft, and AWS to address growing demands from AI and cloud computing. Implementation depends on location, scale, and regulations, but they represent a shift toward more circular and efficient operations.  If you’re interested in specific case studies or cost analyses, I can look into those further.
 
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Jami77

The Gray Man
Jan 17, 2023
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AI is so full of shit - I have been using AI to summarise books - just so I can see if I really want to read the book. There was a book I had read but i wanted it to summarise it to remind myself of the key points. AI summary was pure BS - so i asked it if that was really the book and it admitted that it coudnt find any information on the book and had just come up with a good guess based on the title. It could have just said - Oh I cant find any information - But AI has a really bad habit of not admitting defeat and just making stuff up.

I have noticed if you argue with AI it admits often that it has made shit up. I almost feel it seems to be getting dumber and dumber....
 
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xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
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AI is so full of shit - I have been using AI to summarise books - just so I can see if I really want to read the book. There was a book I had read but i wanted it to summarise it to remind myself of the key points. AI summary was pure BS - so i asked it if that was really the book and it admitted that it coudnt find any information on the book and had just come up with a good guess based on the title. It could have just said - Oh I cant find any information - But AI has a really bad habit of not admitting defeat and just making stuff up.

I have noticed if you argue with AI it admits often that it has made shit up. I almost feel it seems to be getting dumber and dumber....
"Garbage in, garbage out " is the main flaw in non-specific AI.
 
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LTO_3

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Aug 27, 2004
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I'm amazed at how AI is all the rave and most everyone thinks it's the next best thing in life, even when it's wrong (most of the time). Meanwhile governments are leaning on AI to do all their work and also want all safeguards removed. WTF could possibly go wrong with that???
Meanwhile the best computer we have is called grey matter, even though it may not be as fast but the majority of the time it gets it right (except for politicians). Also, why we bounce questions off family, friends to get verification or what we missed (safeguards). The amount of energy to make AI run is astronomical and the strain it puts on electrical grids. But idiots will save the power sources for AI sooner than they will restore power to the people that need it more.

I avoid AI at all times. Even AI calls, I ask for someone human. Ok, that's my rant.

LTO_3
 

Endurance2024

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Oct 23, 2024
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AI is so full of shit - I have been using AI to summarise books - just so I can see if I really want to read the book. There was a book I had read but i wanted it to summarise it to remind myself of the key points. AI summary was pure BS - so i asked it if that was really the book and it admitted that it coudnt find any information on the book and had just come up with a good guess based on the title. It could have just said - Oh I cant find any information - But AI has a really bad habit of not admitting defeat and just making stuff up.

I have noticed if you argue with AI it admits often that it has made shit up. I almost feel it seems to be getting dumber and dumber....
Yeah it's comical. Just for fun my son purposely picks a fight with AI .. AI sits on the fence not giving an opinion one way or another at times. Just funny as hell listening to its responses when you pressure it for an opinion. It apologises and said it will do better.
Or when it gives an intelligent safe answer pressuring it to be more specific or add another variable to the answered question and make it harder.
Usually ends up the AI takes longer each time to answer. Eventually AI comes back and tells you your alotted fair use policy has been exceeded
He must have used a ton of power up on those sessions lol
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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I'm amazed at how AI is all the rave and most everyone thinks it's the next best thing in life, even when it's wrong (most of the time). Meanwhile governments are leaning on AI to do all their work and also want all safeguards removed. WTF could possibly go wrong with that???
Meanwhile the best computer we have is called grey matter, even though it may not be as fast but the majority of the time it gets it right (except for politicians). Also, why we bounce questions off family, friends to get verification or what we missed (safeguards). The amount of energy to make AI run is astronomical and the strain it puts on electrical grids. But idiots will save the power sources for AI sooner than they will restore power to the people that need it more.

I avoid AI at all times. Even AI calls, I ask for someone human. Ok, that's my rant.

LTO_3
AI, with verification, can supply decent info. I have been using g it as a "Google plus" recently to to re look at my retirement planning g for certain tax liabilities as I plan the diversification of things. We are going to have a bunch of pots supplying income and will need to keep an eye on it.

Compiling information its great so far. But for the actual decisions that's all me, I don't ask for recommendations, just information.
 
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GreedyBoy

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Nov 6, 2024
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A friend of mine used to send me long text messages using voice to text and she kept getting angry with the mistakes. In contrast, having a background in programming, that tech really impressed me. In the years since that software only got better. AI has a host of problems now, but most of them will be worked out sooner than you know it. Society is in for a huge rearrangement, and the world is just not ready.
 

LTO_3

Well-known member
Aug 27, 2004
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AI, with verification, can supply decent info. I have been using g it as a "Google plus" recently to to re look at my retirement planning g for certain tax liabilities as I plan the diversification of things. We are going to have a bunch of pots supplying income and will need to keep an eye on it.

Compiling information its great so far. But for the actual decisions that's all me, I don't ask for recommendations, just information.
What you're doing I agree with that. I already did all of mine a few years ago but I did it the old-fashioned way, Ii used a money manager I've known as a friend for 20 years before he got any of my business. He's done very well for me, I'm getting richer even after taking into account what I withdraw every year from in a blend of 6 different sources.

LTO_3
 
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